Ep. 20: Finding Transformation Through Grief with Wade Bergner

How does someone become a children's book author later in life? Today we hear Wade Bergner's journey from the darkness of grief to following what lit him up. Wade is an award winning children's author and founder of the Emotional Agility Matters Children's Series. His most recent book "The Mirror Box" deals with grief and helps families as they move through and adjust to the loss of a loved one. You can find out more about Wade and his books on his website, www.bergnerbooks.com, or search for them on Amazon. 

Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome to the grief trails podcast. I'm your host, Amanda. Kernaghan with remember grams. And a place to provide personalized and meaningful grief support to others. If someone in your life is experiencing a loss, consider sending them one of our grief support boxes. Today on the podcast is Wade Bergner and award-winning children's author and founder of the emotional agility matters. Children's series. His most recent book. The mirror box is meant to provide hope to children and families as they move through and adjust to losing a loved one. Of course, like all stories featured here. Wade story is one about grief. But it is also about something else that has often woven into our episodes. Transformation. That moment in our lives. When we decide to pivot and walk toward something, we can't quite see yet. Something that sparks in us and interest that reminds us of when we were kids and free to explore different things. In past generations, the common path people took was to find a job either after high school or college. And work at that job until retirement. That kind of a path is almost an anomaly these days. The majority of the population changing jobs multiple times throughout their working careers. People diverting into a second career or third career or more commonplace. And with the instability of the corporate world, the lack of loyalty that goes both ways now between companies and employees, it's no surprise that more people find themselves pausing for introspection at one point or another. Is this what I want to be doing? Does this fulfill me? Is this my purpose? Such questions can arise from a variety of things, but grief is a catalyst for many. It brings our mortality front and center reminds us that we are spending our most precious commodity every day time. With no crystal ball to tell us how long we have grief can sometimes awaken us to look deeper at what brings us joy and purpose. This experience is what Wade shares with us today. How he went from hustling in different businesses to deciding, to follow an interest into an unknown landscape. And found himself becoming an author of children's books. Uh, his story, of course, doesn't start there. We start when he was a young man, fresh out of college, living in Colorado and chasing an ambitious dream of making the Olympic trials and running marathon.

Wade: 2:16

as a child, I was someone that loved sports, but school was not my thing. I, I struggled. I had a reading disability, so I was always trying to overachieve in the athletics. And so I've kind of went through life. Overcompensating and trying to people please. And, I was fortunate enough to go and compete in track and cross country in college, so I went to college and and that was a, a great experience. And without, you know, sports, I wouldn't have had that opportunity. Well shortly after I graduated from college. I went out to Colorado to train more, to run and compete hopefully in the Olympic trials in the marathon and after I was out there for about four months. My mom and dad came to visit and my mom had told me my last year of college that she was sick and, you know, she had colon cancer but she, you know, she, she's gonna be fine. And I had never forget, she came to visit and within minutes I I knew that she was, you know, on her final leg. And so it was a real eye-opening. Experience to just have this knowing and have this, conversation with her. And after they left that weekend, I went and told an employer that yeah, I have to go home to family. And they were fortunate enough to. Transport me back to Minnesota, and within two months she passed away. So that was, that was my first real big loss or experience with grief and, it really wakes you up to you know, understand and learn in ways that you really never would've otherwise. You don't wanna go through that. But it's it's part of life. We all, you know, we live and we die. And it's, it's a reality of things. And so, yeah, I had to grow up and see my dad go through what he did and my sister and the different responses and how we deal with it, you know? And

Mandy: 4:04

yeah. How old were you when that

Wade: 4:07

happened? I would've been 23, 22, something like that. Yeah.

Mandy: 4:12

Yeah. So at that young age, I'm sure your mom telling you like, I'm gonna be fine. I think when we're that young, we sometimes just take things at their face value or, you know, you believe what you, what you want to believe. So if someone tells you that, you can sort of internalize it and not worry so much about it. But do you think she was trying to protect you or do you think that she really believed that it was all gonna be okay and.

Wade: 4:36

I think she probably knew it was gonna be a tough battle to, you know, but you don't, even if you have a sliver, hope you wanna try and you don't want people to worry. And if I were to be in her shoes as well, I, you know, you wanna be honest, but at the same time you want to give it everything you've got, then you would, you don't wanna rattle people's. Lives in, in a way that just brings'em down. And so yeah, that was tough. And to have that happen. I, I guess that was, that opened the door to me, looking at different things quite a bit. But what really. Pushed me over the top as I guess when I lost my friend to suicide. And I, at the same time, I'd just going through challenges with marriage and then having a divorce, it all, all came to a head. And, and on top of that, I, I was unsettled with what I was doing for my career. So it really pushed me to ask myself what really matters and how much time. Do we have, we're not guaranteed the next day. And so to understand what lights me up. I said, that was my mission. I said, I'm not chasing money anymore. I'm not chasing status. I don't care what people think. I'm going to do the things that, make me feel good and make me feel like I'm alive. And and I can serve at the same time. And so yeah, I lost track of all the different things I've tried, but some of the things I really enjoyed were working with kids as a teacher's aide and for therapy. I was writing all the time in a journal and stories were coming to me, and I shared a few, and people really liked what I'd come up with. So I just, I allowed myself that time and it was just a, a place that felt. So good. And I thought if I can share some of the experiences I had as a child, or, you know, with grief and with the emotions. I mean, I, I struggled with those things those emotions. So to make a series of books called the Emotional Agility Matter series was something that kept coming back to me and I said, well, that's, that's where I'm gonna lean into and, see what happens from there. Wow.

Mandy: 6:33

What was your career prior to all of that?

Wade: 6:36

Yeah, for over 20 years, I sold books to schools. When I inadvertently ended up working, in that area. I again, running was everything to me. I, I really didn't know what I was doing. Even in college. I graduated and got through it, but I really didn't know, but sales was something I, could do, and I was very self-driven. So with that business, I was a subcontractor in the business. The company was just starting off, so it grew and grew. And I had, by the time I left over 850 school accounts across Minnesota, Wisconsin that I was servicing. And so that really allowed me the opportunity at, at this point in life, to be able to try different things. And so I'm very fortunate for that. And otherwise, I, I also had a healthy vending machine business that I dabbled with. And right around that time, I lost the fire to. To chase anymore because I was, you know, with the books and with the venting and you know, made a lot of people probably shake their heads, but yeah, sometimes you have to stand up for, for what's really important to you, what's calling from within.

Mandy: 7:37

Yeah. So you mentioned you were in Colorado training to possibly be on the Olympic team for marathon running. And then you went back home to be with your mom who was ill. Did you ever get that opportunity to train at that level again? Did you keep running? Was running important to you in your grief? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Wade: 7:57

Yeah, well, yeah, I was just trying to make the Olympic trials. I mean, it's still a lofty goal, but that's to make the Olympic top three. That would've been probably a stretch for me. But you know, I had the opportunity to be in the mix and I did go back To running and it was very, therapeutic just was something that's been part of my life for so, so many years. But I never went back to Colorado. And I did have a couple a year or two after she died where I had some success, a few, few races, but eventually the, the tire started to wear out a bit on me. So I, I stepped, stepped into real world and. Yeah, well

Mandy: 8:35

luckily running is one of those things you can keep with you no matter how fast you are or you know, as we change as we get older. But it's. A really nice thing to just have in your back pocket to get out there and Yeah. And blow off some of your stress and anxiety.

Wade: 8:50

Exactly. Yeah. It's a very easy, easy sport to you don't have to carry much with, you just have some pair of shoes and get out there.

Mandy: 8:59

Exactly. I don't know if I would call it easy always. Well, that's true. Yes. I guess it's a low equipment sport.

Wade: 9:07

That's right. Yeah. I guess the last few years when I really started to sit with loss and understanding and, and trying to come to some peace about what we're doing here and the, the, the nonphysical part of us and, Grief will never be easy. But I guess for myself, just to understand that we're just so much more than the physical beings that we, come to know so well. We look in the mirror, we see it, and we think that's what we are. But it just, there's just so much more to us and to, to feel that connection where where you see signs, where you see things and feel the presence of the. People that have passed. And I feel receptive to that and I feel like that's an opportunity for us after we're not in that fear state, to be able to feel that if we're in fear it's just probably impossible. Yeah. But if we feel relaxed, allow it in that, that, that opportunity might be there for, for us to move forward.

Mandy: 10:01

Yeah, I've talked with other guests about that experience where I think sometimes in the media aftermath of a loss, you're not able to connect on that level. You're so overcome with all of your emotions and your grief. And, and then as time moves forward and you're able to process some of that, I think we do open up a little bit more to that. And then those are when you can start to feel someone's presence or see a sign. And I, I believe that, I think you have to really be on the right. Energy level to be receptive to that. Yeah. You mentioned your best friend. Can you tell me a little bit about him? How long were you friends and, you know, was he a friend of yours back when your mom died or was he a in a friend later in adulthood?

Wade: 10:43

Yeah, he was a friend later in adulthood. Probably 10, maybe 10 years. But yeah, we had common interests and his wife and my are both our ex-wives, but we got together as couples and that was something that I enjoyed doing and it, we didn't make much time to do that with other couples, and so there was a connection there. And so yeah, we did triathlons together and had conversations about sometimes that guys don't normally talk and as I grew older, I appreciated that because that was something that yeah, guys, sometimes we put on this type that we cover things up and we don't talk about certain things and, and there was times we were doing that, but as things got challenging for both of us, we started to. Not share and yeah, they'll never forget getting a phone call from his then girlfriend, telling me the news and, and just thinking he had to the outside world and to me, even a friend, I thought everything was going fine, but. Things weren't, and we didn't have that opportunity or we weren't willing to show our vulnerability and share the challenges that everyone confronts with. But if you bottle it up, sometimes really bad things can happen. And, and that's that's sadly what happened there. And yeah. Was manager of a bank. He was Barry involved in the community. He had. Three wonderful kids that he absolutely adored. And yeah, just a split moment where he just didn't see the light. And that was, that was end of that. So yeah, that was that was something, That really leaves a mark.

Mandy: 12:15

Yeah. Death by suicide, I think is one of the most misunderstood griefs out there. People often can't understand. Why someone would do that, or they don't understand the experience of the family and the friends around them. And so I think it can be extra isolating for those who are grieving and probably has some aspect of reflection and guilt and wondering, you know, why you weren't there, why you didn't see it. And yeah, I just think it adds a layer of complexity to the grief that. The loved ones feel afterwards,

Wade: 12:49

yeah. No, it confusing for everyone and it's just to, to have that little taint where, you know, people, are so confused and don't understand and such a great individual that it's just, yeah, it was just really hard to. Hard to pull it together because you, you hear about it, but then when you feel it directly like that yeah, the more I read, the more I tried to understand and, you know, I, I at least can see. The different perspective that, but it's not, they don't think. Yeah. It's just a, it's just one of those things that just lose all control of reality. And then that's, that's the perfect storm or the own perfect storm.

Mandy: 13:29

So did you start writing your books after his passing or were you already on that journey?

Wade: 13:37

No, that it was after. Yeah. Yeah, it was after when I just started writing more and more and I was at the time divorced. And also revisiting what, what I was gonna do with the rest of my, working career too. And so, so yeah, that was really, I think, a really strong motivating force to. It said, this is something that can help people and it's not about me, it's about the experiences. And he was part of that. And so yeah, the first book, he's dedicated to him and my mother to the first book that I wrote. And, and so each proceeding was the, the second one I had five or six other manuscripts that I had. Plan to write is the second one. But as I got closer and closer to the point where I said I need to decide for sure I remember sitting with what's the hardest emotion that anyone can probably go through, and that's losing a loved one. So I shifted complete gears and sat with that. I said, what can I do with this? How can I make a story? And that's the, that's how the Mirror box book came out. And nothing will ever replace grief, but it, it'll give some hope to families and children about you, how they're just connected or how they can just feel that connection when they're ready and allow themself to relax, like I said, and not be in that fear state and feel those memories together. Mm-hmm. Feel the strong connection that just won't go it won't go away. It's a transition that is very, very different. And it'll never be the same, but it's not gone.

Mandy: 15:06

Yeah. You know, the more people I talk to, the more similarities I see in the ways that our life often with a big loss. It, it brings about a whole reevaluating of our entire lives, right? From our jobs to our relationships to, you know, our life purpose and what we wanna be doing. And that's what I love about this podcast is I just get to hear how people's stories diverged into this new, this new creation of whatever they. Whatever path they decide to go down after a loss and, and to rebuild their life in a new way. So I'd love to hear how you've done that with your writing, and I think it's really interesting that you were already involved with books prior in a different way. You were in sales and then you transitioned onto another side of it, which is fascinating. What made you wanna write children's books Verse any other form of writing fiction or nonfiction?

Wade: 16:04

I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I guess that experience being a teacher's aide or substitute with the elementary kids just such amazing energy and, as I grew older, spending time with nieces and nephews, I felt so comfortable in that spot, and I thought there's intellectual people that can write these books for adults and things, and I have a way, and I at least I think I do, of taking that information and making it into something that's digestible for a child. And I love that space and love that opportunity to look in their eyes and, and see them, you know, pick up little things that can help them. Maybe, maybe not now, but it's planting a seed and so yeah, the just they're. Kids are they're a handful, but they're also closer to where we came from. And I think as adults, we sometimes are so driven and so busy. And so yeah. And I, I guess I need to step away from that because I've been there for so long. And if I can be an example to kids and families that yeah, what are we chasing here?

Mandy: 17:02

Yeah, and grief is a topic there aren't tons of children's books on, and a really important topic because it's not something you often think about as a child, but it is something that can happen. And if it doesn't happen in childhood, it's very likely to happen as you move into adulthood and. To have some sort of foundation or for those children who are grieving someone and are feeling alone and isolated, and that experience, having a book to go to, to feel some sort of healing from is so important. What kind of feedback have you gotten from about your books, from people who've read them?

Wade: 17:40

Well, it's been great. Yeah, I've gotten some really good feedback and it was scary because like you said, there's not a lot of books like this and but yeah, I felt like that's what I needed to do and need to just take that chance and, and write about it. And so yeah, I've got some really nice reviews from people that are in, have a background in like funeral directors have, have had bulk orders for. Them to give to children and families as they're experiencing that. So that's, that's been a real area that I'm, I'm trying to spend a little more time visiting them and also like psychiatrists see the value in this or school counselors. So I'm trying to get those out to areas that, that can utilize utilize the book and. I'm looking for opportunities to help in those areas. If there's a way I can reach out to a child or family or get this book to them yeah. Yeah. That'll, that'll, that'll be feel really good. I'm

Mandy: 18:36

sure it feels good to look at the work you're doing and knowing that it's having a real life impact on people and, and on kids too, you know, who are going through sometimes the hardest thing that they've ever had to go through and to have a small role in that is, So valuable and yeah. Thanks. I know personally that getting into any kind of field that has to do with grief is a tough field to, to go into in a vulnerable place, to put yourself when you're telling people what you're up to and what you're creating. So I'm curious about your experience as you start to write these children's books and you're writing about grief and. Your process of putting that out there in the world. I'm sure that was, was that like a very vulnerable thing to do and was, were you nervous about the reaction you were gonna get from people?

Wade: 19:24

Yes. And and at the same time, I just knew that I needed to do this and once I committed to it and knew that, Yeah, I'm gonna find out who really are, are willing to stand by my side and accept me for being the not normal person in, in doing, stepping into this area. But normal doesn't belong here. It's just I need to, I need to try these things. But yeah, there's times when. I have to think ahead of time. How do I convey myself and make people you know, understand my passion for doing what I need to do and, and still, you know, make them uncomfortable. Well,

Mandy: 20:00

I think it's really powerful that you had this inkling that you wanted to go after, you know, try something new and you wanted to focus on this in honor of your friend and in honor of your mom, and, and that you put yourself out there. And it shouldn't matter gender, but I think seeing a man be vulnerable in those areas is really important. You mentioned your friend and you going for runs and, and opening up about some really sensitive topics and feeling like that was a space you don't always see between men. And I just really admire that. I think it's really important that we're seeing we're all human. We all go through very similar emotions and for some reason society accepts it much more from women than they do from men. And men often feel like they have to bottle it up a little bit more. And that clearly we know is not healthy for our mental health. So I like that you were able to do that.

Wade: 20:54

Yeah. Thanks. But I'd like my books to be able to. Help the, help the elderly or the aging, to be able to think about these things openly and say, well, what would I like to leave behind in, in this mirror box, you know, some tokens or memories to the grandchildren and there's such a amazing relationship between grandparents and, and, and grandchildren. And I think that that's a, a real. Neat thing to carry on, and, and there's no, no reason to just kind of block it out because yeah, it's hard to think about death, but at the same time you know, just leave a mark because it can continue beyond your physical world. If you want to be able to leave little tokens of things that meant something to both of you and to just to keep that, keep that going.

Mandy: 21:41

Absolutely. I think we're so afraid of thinking about death that people aren't always intentional about their legacy and the things they're leaving. And I'm a big proponent of making sure we're leaving an intentional legacy and that we're, we're mindful about those things because it is an inevitability for all of us and none of us will live forever, unfortunately. So Yeah, I, I think what you're doing is so important and so helpful to the world. And so you have the mirror box, that's the book that we've been talking about here. Are you also writing other books? Can you tell me a little bit about the other books?

Wade: 22:17

Yeah, I've got, let's see, five other manuscripts. The next one well, I can't say for sure which one will be, but it one per year is what it looks like. At this point. I'm hopeful that I can find a publisher to help me with publicity and all these things that are Yeah, there's a lot of moving parts to try to make a book successful, and I'm willing to do what I can, but at, at the same time, I'm, just self-published and I've had some great people, I've had amazing illustrator to work with and amazing editors and, but the publicity and, and doing the things that you need to build the momentum yeah. That's my focus is to really not be afraid and do the things necessary to, to get this book out there and represent it. I like to tell people that I'm not self-promoting. This is a book that I feel really strongly about and I'm representing whatever the book, and it takes the edge off of me because it feels so right to feel and say I'm doing what I need to do, whether it makes me uncomfortable or not. But the Books Let Go is one of them. And through The Clouds Leo the Light Worker, angry Air is another one. And the other one's called, I think it's gonna be called his name was Gratitude. Wow. So there's some other, some of the different books in the emotional Agility Matter series. Yeah. I love

Mandy: 23:34

that. I think in this day and age, learning emotional agility and emotional regulation and that all emotions are okay for kids is crucial. You know, our world has a lot going on in it, and so I, I love that you're addressing that with kids, and I really hope that the publicity stuff can get figured out and can take off. You know, often when we trade or we move from one career to another, we go from a set of problems in one career that we're unhappy yet, and we get into this new realm and it's not always just smooth sailing. I know I created my business and, you know, was so hopeful that it, it was just gonna be like no issues the whole way. Everyone was gonna get it, everyone was gonna be on board. But, you know, everything comes with its own challenges and I think it really comes down to what you said is. Believing in it and just saying, I know deep down this is what I'm meant to do and I know that this has value, and people will come around. And so I think it's, yes, both of these things have challenges, but if you're, if you're really in it, if it's what you're meant to do, then I think it feels different. Right? I mean, I'm more willing to. Face the challenges I have in my own business head on because it's something I care so much about, more than, you know, a regular nine to five where I'm working for someone else.

Wade: 24:54

Yeah. And I think it's just how we're wired. I think that when I sit with it and say, okay, if I'm all in my heart's in it, my every ounce of me is in it. And I, I want to be here. Yes, there's gonna be challenges, or if I. I don't wanna say phone it in, but if I'm working for someone and it's not quite the right fit, I'm tenfold, if not a hundred fold better. And, and maybe upfront it's gonna, it's gonna take a while to, Be at the level where if you work for somebody, boom, you're gonna make this dollar amount and okay, you're, you're comfortable. Well, and, and this is a long term thing, you have to look at it differently. And it's not the normal way of looking at, you know, if you're, if you're used to working for someone, and yeah, I just have to move in and step into that and let, let the chips fall where they may.

Mandy: 25:39

Probably helps that you are a marathon runner cuz you know that a marathon is very different than a sprint and you have to be patient and pace yourself and be ready for the long haul. So it's probably a great life experience to have beforehand.

Wade: 25:55

That's, that's true. Yeah. I still work on my patience, but it is definitely a good way to look at it.

Mandy: 26:02

Before all of this happened in your life when you were at your previous job and before your divorce and then the unexpected death of your friend, did you ever imagine yourself becoming an author? Was that something that you had like sometimes thought about or did this really come out of nowhere?

Wade: 26:19

Yeah, no, it came outta nowhere. I, I, I really had no. Yeah, I just didn't ever think about it even, yeah. It just came out of nowhere. And yeah, like you said, it's kind of ironic how I ended up in the schools anyways. I didn't, I didn't go to school in education, but To end up selling books and then putting healthy vending machines in schools and then yeah, working as a teacher's aide, these different things. So yeah, I think there's the, but things behind the scenes. Yeah. And I sometimes I feel like it's it's my mom, she was in education and I think there's just a little piece there. And the writing thing, I think she always wanted to write. I know she was absolute, absolutely loved reading. And so I think that she's helped me a great deal in her way. I really, I really do feel that way.

Mandy: 27:03

Wow. It's really yeah, fascinating to look back at the path you took and how really interconnected all of those things are. Even though at the time they probably didn't seem that way, that they were all leading to you actually having your own book. The, you know, working and with kids in a school and. Selling books and the vending machines, all of that has like this thread that connects to where you are now. And I, I find that really fascinating to think about.

Wade: 27:33

Yeah, I, and I forget about this too, but the, the book business that allowed me really to open the door to do all these other things that followed That happened at a point where I came back home and was trying to do an insurance job that just didn't feel right. And I, I remember saying, I have to go, I cannot do this. And I went to a library to look at the newspaper to try to find a different job. Mm-hmm. And here was this new startup company. And my, yeah. This was, three, four months after my mom passed away. Oh. And I just was like, whoa. And I went and interviewed, accepted the position, and, and off it took it just, and that was one of those things where I couldn't believe how great a fit it was and how quickly it took off and how, yeah. It just really changed everything for me.

Mandy: 28:23

And that you found that in a library? I love that.

Wade: 28:26

Yeah, that's true too. Yeah. There's a lot of, lot of neat things that and I, for, I forget all the little pieces that that are put together there.

Mandy: 28:36

Yeah. You know, I think writing is, not focused on enough as something that can be really therapeutic and helpful to people who are grieving. I didn't write a lot after my mother's death but after my brother died and I had processed that for a while, I started to write and it was the most profoundly healing thing I've ever done. For me, I, I always thought like if I was gonna write, it meant I had to keep a journal every night. And I'm not a journal keeper. I am not good at routine and like being very regimented about when I write, and I've just never been able to maintain a diary or anything like that. And so in my head, I think when people were like, oh, you should journal after a death, I never took that advice cuz I didn't, that that isn't my outlet for writing and. Actually, I recently went to a writing workshop with Cheryl Stra and she wrote the book Wild, and she got up in front of him. There's like 200 people in the audience, and she said, sometimes people say that a writer is someone who writes every day. And she said, and if that's the definition of a writer, then I'm not a writer because I don't write every day and that I'm a binge writer. And that meant so much to me because that's how I write. But no one had ever said to me that that's okay. But my point is that I think writing can come in many different forms. So for you, it led to children's books and for me, it led to writing memoir and personal essays and stories about my life and really revisiting those memories. And it can look different for everyone. For someone else, it's completely writing fiction and going into another world and. I hope that people can listen to this and realize like, therapeutic writing can be anything. It can be poetry, it can be anything that you want it to be. It doesn't have to be just buying a journal and writing your feelings every night. It can be all sorts

Wade: 30:25

of things. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a great tool and, you know, everyone's different. Maybe it's something else for someone, but mm-hmm. I know that the to find that thing that lights you up and give yourself that gift because it's so, so helpful to move through something like that loss or, or just basic challenges in, in life and yeah, give yourself that gift because it's extremely helpful. Not only for you, but for. Everyone in your family people you work with, your community and we have a tendency to neglect that We get caught on the hamster wheel. Running, running, running. And just don't think we could or should or have, you know? But yeah, to give yourself permission to be whoever you are, like you said, you don't have to write every single day, but mm-hmm. Or if it's, if it's sewing or playing chess or whatever, you know, just didn't make time for it. It's, it's okay. It's okay you know, when you feel good. Mm-hmm. And you know when you feel bad, so.

Mandy: 31:19

Yeah, some of that I think comes with age, I guess, and in our younger years, I think we're a little more self-conscious about what we need to be doing by society's standards. And I think as we get older and then we have these experiences that are just earth shattering for us, that that's when you start to reevaluate what you really enjoy, what really brings you that sense of peace and I find it to be moments when I can just fall into creativity and lose track of time and whatever it is that you're doing that brings you that feeling where you could spend four hours doing it and not even realize it. Those are the things that, that people have to go after.

Wade: 31:55

Yeah. Yeah. It's fun to get in that, that, that zone. It's sometimes, sometimes it's not always easy to find, but if you do, it's like pay attention because that's, that's something special. Exactly. Like I said really not be afraid to try, try the things that light you up and, you know, if it means just demon for an hour or two a day. Oh, that's a little, maybe a little much. But even if you're making half hour a day. Yeah,

Mandy: 32:22

And sometimes when you hear these stories, it sounds like someone found their thing and then they left their job immediately and they had this whole new life and it. I have found that that's you know, it can look different for everyone. So sometimes you're still working that nine to five job for quite a while while you're pursuing this other thing that feels really good and that you're really enjoying and you just have to it takes persistence just like running. You just have to keep going and putting one step in front of the other until you get there. Exactly. Where can people find you? Where can they find the mirror and how can they connect with you?

Wade: 32:56

Yeah I have a, a website, it's called bergner books.com and that's spelled B e R G N E R books.com. And then on Amazon or Barnes and Noble, you can pick up a copy. And then, yeah, the MeBox is, it came out in January and, and it's been doing well really well, and it's be fun to get it in the right hand. So if they, if you know of groups or organizations and, and I love being able to personalized books, if they order it online and to put it to their grandchild., I often feel like I should work for Hallmark because I, I can, that's one gift I can do. I can write things and sometimes that's an area people struggle with.

33:36

I hope you enjoyed listening to Wade and his journey to becoming a children's book author. If there's an inkling in you that you want to explore something new in your life, something creative and different from what people have come to expect of you. I hope these stories give you that extra ounce of courage to reach toward that. To close today. I will leave you with a journal prompt. Today, right about transformation. Imagine yourself in a completely different career. What does that life look like? How does it feel? How did you get there? If you'd like to share your writing or reach out to us with any questions or comments, feel free to email us@contactatremembergrams.com. As always subscribing to the podcast and sharing with friends helps others find the show to support us. In other ways, please visit remember grams.com. Anytime you are in need of some meaningful support for a friend or family member who is grieving. Have a great day.