Ep. 24: Navigating Pet Loss with Erica Messer

Join us as we discuss the ins and outs specific to pet loss and how Erica Messer changed the trajectory of her life after the loss of her cat Wolfgang and created Wolfie's Wish. Visit her website to check out or purchase her deck of grieving cards specific for the loss of a pet. You can find Erica on Instagram @Wolfies_wish. 

Stay tuned for special Pet Loss Support Boxes coming to RememberGrams soon. 

Transcript

0:01

Hello, and welcome back to the grief trails podcast for season two. I am your host, Amanda. Kernaghan from remember Graham's a small business with a big heart committed to supporting those experiencing grief. If you were someone, you know, is grieving, please visit our website. Www dot, remember grams.com and consider sending them a personalized card or grief support box. While we've been away. I've spent my summer in a mixture of hiking trails, both of my home state of New York. And in some of our national parks, when I was away with my husband. We went to Yellowstone and grand Teton to celebrate our 15 years of marriage. Each hike, the long ones and the short ones, the ones close to home and the ones, many states away. We're another opportunity for me to go inward and think back to what. The origins of this podcast are, and my own story. I began hiking after my mom's death. Completely consumed by my grief and found some magical healing power in nature. That has continued to grow every time I venture out. This summer was no exception. In the times when we were not traveling or spending much needed time with family. I was working on my book, a memoir about grief, loving and losing siblings to addiction. And self-discovery. It has been both busy and fruitful as I embarked down new paths towards finding an agent and getting a book out into the world. And everything that has transpired this summer has brought me back to the story. So many guests in season, one shared stories of grief that have led them down new life paths. I'm incredibly grateful to have held space for those guests and looking forward to more this season. The lineup going forward as full of stories that will both break our hearts. And fill them with hope for a way forward, a unique way forward that can only be yours. We're starting today with a different topic than we covered in season one. But one that millions of people can identify with. The grief of losing a pet. In the U S alone, a whopping 66% of households. That's almost 90 million homes have pets. I'm one of those homes. With the big six year old German shepherd named Thor. But they're shorter lifespans. That means many of us will or have already faced the grief of this kind of loss. It's not often talked about it. Isn't recognized by our workplaces and it's rarely acknowledged much by the people in our circles. Today, I'm joined on the show by Erica Messer. Founder of Wolfies wish uh, pet loss support company. Like so many of the stories we share here Wolfies which began with grief on Erika lost her cat Wolf gang suddenly. She found herself feeling alone and isolated, having just moved to a new country before the shutdown of the world. When the COVID 19 pandemic hit. And it was through this experience that she found herself on a new path. To help other briefed pet parents let's dive in and hear more about wolfgang

Erica: 2:51

Yeah. So I love talking about Wolfgang. I think we all love talking about our pets that we love and cherish because there's a special bond there that is very unique. And I feel very blessed and lucky, even though I only had Wolfgang for a small amount of time. It was incredible. He was my COVID companion. I adopted him in May 2020. And in March of 2020, my husband and I had moved to Munich, Germany. So we really didn't know Things shut down almost immediately, I would say within 12 days. And so we really didn't know anyone here or have support here. And when I found that Wolfgang was up for adoption you know, I was extremely excited. And yeah, I'd already, I knew I was getting a cat and I'd already named him Wolfgang. I just needed the cat. So he, he was this little kitten that had eye herpes. It was kind of gross, but he needed care and attention. And I needed something to take care of, like something to do. And we got to save his eye. He still had a little bit of a milky looking eye, but he had to keep it. Which was the goal, which we were trying to do. So I think she and I bonded over that, you know, animals know when they're being cared for, especially given medicine several times a day. And I think that that was a unique thing. And then that compounded by, Hey, we're around each other 24 seven, like I'm not leaving the house. We all entered this new relationship with animals in those two years. And then he was crazy. I love talking about him because I'm still to this day, like I would be sketching and he's like, I need to do that too. And we'll just try to grab the pencil and eat it and like constantly entertaining and weird. He would love to just, I think this cat played truth or dare with himself, except no truth part, just all dare. He's like, I wonder if I can leap across the room and land on the couch.

Mandy: 4:50

Oh, I love hearing about pets during COVID too, because you're right. It was such a shift. And I think for people, for humans, we were caught off guard having to be home all the time. And for our pets, it was like the greatest thing ever. I have a dog and all of a sudden we're just home all the time. So yeah, I think the companionship between like pet and human really changed during COVID.

Erica: 5:15

Yeah. And you know, they love us even if we stay in the same clothes for four days and don't shower. They don't judge us. They're not like put on a clean shirt, mom. They, you know, we can, we can have all of our emotions, our ups and downs, our fears during the COVID pandemic. And I miss people. And, you know, I'm pretty sure I talked to Wolfgang regularly. And. You know, luckily he never told me that, you know, we all entered, we all had to have something. And so, yeah, so it, so it was a, it was a beautiful short relationship because unfortunately he died a year and a half, year and a half later, too short, too soon, but the good die young. Right. Yeah,

Mandy: 6:00

I do actually do very much believe that but his death, correct me if I'm wrong, was unexpected for you. Oh

Erica: 6:07

yeah, yeah out of, out of, Out of a nightmare. Yeah, sudden and it wasn't prepared for it. And, and I think most people will understand that, you know, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I didn't have a plan for his. aftercare, like cremation, burial. I didn't have all these questions because I didn't think I needed to answer them for a long time. You know, I'm pretty sure. So Wolfgang was actually like a replacement cat and I, and I hate to use that term. You can never replace a pet. But right before we moved to Germany in January of 2020, we lost Michi to a car accident. Some people were drag racing. On our street and yeah, so, so I knew when the time was right, I was going to get another cat. So I would whisper to Wolfgang, you know, like, okay, so here's the thing. We're in an apartment now, but you know, before you die, like 20 years or so, whatever you can manage, you know, I'm going to be sure to let you like chase pigeons outside or we will like find, you know, I would tell him these things. And so I was trying to cement the fact that like, he was going to be around. It's probably funny to admit that. I don't think I've admitted that to anyone but my husband. But yeah, so he died unexpectedly and quite tragically. It was very traumatic for me and my husband and my friend who was here. And so I was just faced with a lot, like, There you go. You know, here's a gift from the universe. Figure it out what to do from here. You know, and I'm sorry to make light of it, but it was like, okay, you got the traumatic death, the sudden death. You live in an apartment. So I knew I couldn't bury him in our courtyard. I hadn't ever thought about ashes and like having pet remains. And so just kind of in shock, right. And, and not having the resources to really cope with the emotional side to for me, all the pets that I've had, except for Michi, who passed away suddenly to there was some anticipatory loss. And we could plan a little bit or we knew we were going to put the animal down or it was just time to do that. And there's a goodbye period, even if it's short, there is a goodbye. And with him, there was no goodbye.

Mandy: 8:18

Right. I think the thing with sudden loss that makes it so difficult is just that, I mean, obviously It's unexpected and then you're just thrown into this new world and it takes your brain and your body and your emotions time to catch up to that. Oh, yeah. There is no progression into it, right? It's just one day things are fine and the next day your whole world has changed. So,

Erica: 8:40

yeah, you said it. I think of my took days for my brain. To catch up, and I, for a long time, I mean, for at least a year, it still happens. I wake up in the middle of the night, and my thought is, did that really happen? Still, it's not as often, but. And I would kind of panic and one of the counselors that I saw would tell me when that happens in the middle of the night to put my hand on my heart and remind myself I'm okay and I'm safe and just to take some deep breaths, but just to hold my heart almost like a hug, a self hug, right? Because it's it's something that's always going to be there. It's something that I have scars on my heart. Sure. My healing takes a long time and, and brains take a long time to process sudden loss. So there was that aspect. And then just knowing I wanted to know that I was going to be okay. And I wanted to know that I could have joy again, because I consider myself. A pretty happy, like, I love life kind of a person. And I didn't really want this to set me back for the rest of my life where I become a cynical, you know, withdrawn kind of victim. I could easily see that happening and I easily, immediately understood how some people never make it through that, right? Or they get stuck there.

Mandy: 10:03

And I almost imagine that for you, your grief was compounded by the fact that you had moved to another country. You probably didn't have the same support system that you had when you lost your cat previously. And not to mention that this pet was your companion through this pandemic, this emotionally charged period where people are feeling completely isolated and lonely and then to lose him. In the midst of all that and have to navigate this whole new system without the resources, like you said, you aren't familiar with the resources that are there for you. Can you talk a little bit about what that was like for you and your husband in the immediate, aftermath of that

Erica: 10:45

happening? Well, thank you for acknowledging that. Sometimes I forget that there was a lot of just weird factors that made it especially hard, and at the time I didn't understand why it was so hard. I had to backpedal and really break it down. So I had allowed myself to feel as bad as I did. Right. Because I was also shocked with how not okay. I was, and I'm thinking, well, I just, I, I just need to accept what happened. Okay. Come on, brain. You know, like, you know how to do this. Move, move, move, move on, move through this. And it was much more complicated than that. But you're right. You know, I, I was talking to my mom every day. She had never met Wolfgang, but she cried with me on the phone and was heartbroken as well. Cause she saw, I talked FaceTime the day we brought him home, you know, I was in the bathtub with him, getting him acquainted to our bathroom. Cause you got to start small and, you know, she fell in love with him too. And the friends that I did develop, the friendship that I did develop here, you know, they were new friendships, right? So the pandemic, things relaxed for us around summer 2021. And how close can you get with someone in that amount of time? Not very. Especially not to where you can say, Hey, my cat. Fell out of our apartment and I'm not okay. You know, most people like recoil, even hearing that today they recoil. And I sometimes don't like to tell people the way he died because I don't want to traumatize them with just the story, but there it is bad things happen on this planet all the time, even worse than that. You know, that's just the worst experience that I've had, which I could say I'm sort of lucky for a lot of people I've gone through much worse things and I, and I was aware of that. And my brain was using that as a tool to try to minimize. Or put things in perspective on where I was because to me, my life, my life was profoundly changed and I was devastated, but I tried to tell myself, you know, I'm okay. My husband's okay. My parents, my brother, you know, like, let's get it together here. There's a lot of internal fighting going on. And part of the reason that I, I like talking about pet loss and I do is to give people permission to grieve. Really bad. Like, get in there. I know what it's like, and I want people to have tools and resources and know that they're supported.

Mandy: 13:14

And to know that it's normal. That we don't have to rationalize and say, like, well, society wouldn't think that this was a big enough loss for me to experience grief, so I shouldn't be grieving. And, and I know that internal speak that you're thinking of, and like other people have it worse, and we're okay. And. And all these other things are good in my life, but to be able to give yourself that permission and say, this is totally normal and it's a human experience and I'm allowed to be as devastated as I am.

Erica: 13:43

And the time that it takes. So my brain wanted to check some things off of a list and move on, but grief doesn't work like that. And I have lost my grandparents. But no one really close to me. So I wasn't sure, and we're not taught in school or really in any book or, you know, life 101 doesn't say, here's how, here's what grief is going to look like for you. And here's how long it takes. And here's what you need to do to take care of yourself. So you don't go into destructive behavior. And I have people that. They say, what do you do for a living? I was like, well, I help pet parents grieve. And they're like, oh, okay, that's weird. Or, oh, tell me more. And the ones that say, tell me more, they like lean in a little bit and they lean in a little more. And then they say, confidingly, they say, I grieve the loss of my dog more than my dad or my mom. And they're, they're looking for permission from me to acknowledge that. And almost like, is that normal? And we really need to revisit how pet loss is viewed because. For some people, it is more acute than losing a family member. For me, it was. I can't speak for everyone, but when people come to me and say that, then I know that I'm not alone, and that I don't need to explain to people, you know, and I feel like people, people shouldn't have to make excuses or comparisons. It's just, it's just bad, just a bad experience. And the more support and understanding I think there is in the world for that to, to allow pet loss grief to be a valid form of grief is huge. And there's a lot of counselors out there on Instagram, particularly stressing this and educating. And my mentor and friend, Colleen Ellis, I heard her in a podcast once who said 70 percent of the population owns a pet. And yet it's the 30 percent that are telling us how we're allowed to grieve and feel about the loss of those pets. It's really not, not good math. And I would love to see there'd be grief education, some part of the school curriculum, and also pet bereavement leave. Come on, HR. You got this. You got this.

Mandy: 15:59

So pet loss is one of those things that I think is very much not acknowledged by other people, by society in general, and it's a very much expected that if your pet dies, you still function like normal the next day or the next day. And. Yeah, you don't get time off of work. I mean, so much needs to change when it comes to bereavement. You know, I've lost my brother, I've lost my mother, and both of those experiences, you know, work gives you three days off, which is just... Not sufficient but then you think about people who lose their pets and you get no time off unless you want to use your own personal time. So, I do, I agree with you. I think a lot has to change there and when I started Remember Grams and I make personalized sympathy cards and people can upload photos of whoever has passed away and then I'll make like a special card for the person who's grieving. I actually didn't anticipate pets as part of that, or I hadn't thought of it because my experience was more with family members, but I started to get a couple orders for pet loss, and it actually has become one of the most common cards that are ordered, and the most appreciated. Oh. People, I think. I think people are surprised to have that grief acknowledged by others. And so I've, I had someone, she sent me a couple photos of, I think it was her mom's dog who had passed away. And so we made a card with some pictures of her mom's dog and a nice message from her. And her mom lived in like a different state as her and then they went on vacation together. Her mom brought the card on vacation and was just like, I was so touched by this card and like I wanted to show it to you in person so you could see it. It's like amazing. And so I think that just goes to show your point that this is such a hidden experience and such a quiet, shameful experience for some people almost because they feel like they shouldn't be feeling that way. And then what we can do to acknowledge it as.

Erica: 18:08

Yeah, and what a beautiful thing you're doing as well is a lot of healing there and it's also helping individuals who want to show support for their friends, their family, their colleagues, their neighbors, their clients, their customers, and they don't know how they don't want to do. And you know, typically it's like, I'm sorry for your loss. Here's some flowers. You know, it's so nice, it's so nice to do the wrong thing. Even, that's not the wrong thing. So, to show, to just to try means so much. You know, the worst thing you can do is just ignore it and minimize it and pretend it didn't happen. The best thing you can do is ask an individual, what would supporting you look like? Do you know yet what I can do to help you? Do you want me to bring you some food? Do you want me to hang out? Do you want to be left alone? Just have a conversation, right? And it's hard because I didn't know what I needed and it changed day to day. Some days I just texted some friends and said, can we just have dinner? Just like not talk about pet laughs, but just like have dinner and have a normal night. And then there's days where I don't, I didn't want to talk or see anyone. And so it's a roller coaster. And I think for the people listening that are experiencing pet loss. To know that and give yourself permission to just be a yo yo. Then also for the ones that are listening that need to support or want to support someone, they know to expect a yo yo and that person might not know what they need right now, or when you ask, but to ask again. And ask again. And ask again. Right.

Mandy: 19:41

And to not expect that it will be a one time, you know, couple day thing and then they're gonna be over it or, you know, not thinking about it. I think people are afraid to bring it up sometimes because they think, oh, I'll remind them that this happened, but. Oh, yeah. Right. It's like on someone's mind as if they're grieving, it's on their mind all the time.

Erica: 20:02

And that's interesting because, you know, I try to put, I try to give myself perspective and that if I was, if I was a friend, you know, do I bring up the loss or not? Right. And And I think that's something that is a, a case by case basis. So let's say my best friend's dog passed away suddenly. I feel comfortable asking her, do you want to talk about Haley now or not? Do you, do you mind if I bring it up or would you rather I not? And I think that that changes. I think the answers would change week to week, month to month. And, but to, to not ask, I think is insensitive. To, to pretend that it didn't happen. I think that's what, that's what perpetuates the minimalization of pet loss grief is to ignore it because we're uncomfortable. You know what? Life's uncomfortable. Let's care about each other and, and you know, I think it really is better to say the wrong thing or be told, like, I don't want to talk about that then to do nothing. That's personal and, and that's okay.

Mandy: 21:08

So after you lost. Wolfgang, how long after that did you start thinking that you might want to do something with this experience and create something out of it? I know you've already hinted that you are involved in pet loss and helping pet parents experience that. So what led you to that point and how long before you started getting involved in something to do with that?

Erica: 21:32

I have to give my mom, Bonnie Bradley, complete credit for that. It was nothing that I sought out to do. What happened was you know, I live in Munich, Germany, and I didn't really know a lot of people, and so I was really leaning in on her for support, kind of all my support, and sanity checks, and mom, I'm not doing okay today checks. But I would share with her, hey, today, after I meditated, I wrote Wolfgang a letter and it ended up being 12 pages and it's up in the, it's up in my wardrobe right now. And, and let me tell you why this was helpful. And it was just that I think getting down what I loved about him on paper that I could would allow my brain to relax and let go of some of the trauma. Knowing that I wasn't going to forget him and how special he was to me today, right now, I've probably forgotten some of those things, but knowing that the story is there to be reminded is kind of fun and exciting. And I'm looking forward to reading that when I need to maybe on his the death anniversary this year, just coming up. And so, so I was sharing with her the tools that I was using that I found helpful. And it's nothing, it's not rocket science, it's nothing groundbreaking, it's just self care practices and being still and being in nature and following my intuition and my own gut on how to heal. Because I looked for pet loss affirmation cards and couldn't find any and what I wanted was just like instructions. I wanted a manual and I found a lot of books that completely overwhelmed me because my first thought was. Well, do I have to read the whole dang thing to know that I'm going to be okay? Because I can't concentrate right now. And how long does it take? Is that gonna, is that weeks? I don't, that makes me panic to know that I might have a solution in a number of weeks. I need something now, you know? And so anyway, I, I sought out professional help. Because I really thought I'd lost my mind or I was not going to be okay and a whole bunch of other reasons, but getting back to your question. So it was my mom and she. She said, you know, it sounds like you're finding some things that are helpful for you, and I really like those ideas and these practices. Why don't you make that card deck that you couldn't find? And I laughed at her, and I was like, no, I don't know how to do that, mom. I don't have the money to do that. I don't want to do that. I'm grieving. I want to be selfish and just be self centered and, you know, take care of myself right now. And she's like, okay, honey, you know, and then she brought it up again. It's like, mom, I don't, I don't know. You know, I was really resistant because that's a big commitment. And what ended up changing my mind was when I was talking to, I first got a regular counselor, and then I said, I really need someone that's about this, and I found a pet loss counselor, and I'm not sure I knew they existed at the time and the woman I worked with was really great, and when she told me, when I was able to be vulnerable with her and trust her, and really tell her what's going on, which took a couple of sessions, she said, Erica, you know. You're normal. Everything you're experiencing is normal. These are normal responses to grief and trauma and loss. And I said, no, this can't be right. I have mental illness. I have addiction. I, I'm special. My symptoms are special. And I need you to tell me if I need to go check myself in somewhere or see a psychiatrist. And she said, no, you're normal. These, these responses are normal and you're going to be okay. And you know, I'm going to help you work through them. And I think it was just like 24, within 24 hours. I was like, mom, you're, you're right. I didn't know that people suffer like this. I didn't know that you did. Cause I'm not you. And we don't talk about it. I know you're sad when you have to bury one of your cats, but I didn't know the pain that you felt, I didn't understand it. And now I understand it. And mom, it's terrifying knowing that other people feel this crappy. And don't talk about it and feel ashamed or minimize it or hide it or gosh, God forbid they keep it inside. Okay, you know, let's, let's make these cards. I wrote some down. You know, I'm going to come home. I want to show them to you. I want to be with you anyway. And, and so that's how that's how that's their long, long answer. Got to starting Wolfie's wish and making these cards.

Mandy: 26:15

Wow. I love hearing about people's origin stories and how, you know, one tragic event can kind of lead us in a new direction and to something that we hadn't anticipated. Same is true for me. I did not set out to have an entire website dedicated to grief and a podcast about grief. And it's just where life has led me. And I like that you were brave enough to follow that. Desire or that inkling that there might be something there that needs to be out in the world and that you were able to provide that. Thank you. So can you explain, I've seen the cards and they're awesome, but for listeners who aren't able to see this visually and are just listening in their car as they're driving, can you explain what the cards are and how many there are in a deck and That kind of information.

Erica: 27:07

Yeah, thank you. I always forget to that's really important. Oh, there are 30 cards for me. The 1st, 30 days with the hardest and I really needed a crutch a cool. So, each card is an instruction, a prompt or a practice. for that day. You can even take a week if you need to. If you like one of the cards so much, you know carry it with you, put it out by your bathroom. It's just a four inch square and they're two sided. And it's just a tool to get started on your healing. So you can shuffle them. You can read them all at once. There's no wrong way to really use them. And they're great tools to bring into counseling sessions or share on social media or share in your support groups, or, you know, share with your family, talk, bring kids into the conversation is really important. We have an illustrated deck for that purpose to really give them, you know, a picture of what, what the grief looks like for someone. And. Just get a conversation started. So, yeah, it's real simple. It's just a box of 30 cards and you know, all the text is the same. We just have presented it in different ways. So there's the paw prints version, which is just text and the images stay the same on each on each card. And then there's the illustrate one where I hired an illustrator to draw beautiful pictures of horses, rabbits, birds, dogs, and cats, and a guinea pig so that everyone feels included. And those are also all ages. And Just more of I don't want to say playful because that's like kind of an insensitive word, but heartfelt and some people need a little visual stimulus to, to really connect with what the words are saying, right? So a woman who had an autistic daughter and they lost their dog, she said, these are really helping her see what the words mean. And that felt great. I'd never really thought of that before and how helpful visual tools can be for some people.

Mandy: 29:12

That's great. And how did you get these out in the world? And like, what has the response been to them so

Erica: 29:17

far? Well, thank you. I, I got them out in the world, but, you know, I did some fundraising and told my friends and family what I was doing, and they really thought I was making something like you have, like sympathy note cards. And I had them printed in the US first. And like, we hand assembled the boxes with little stickers and this and that just to kind of get it going. And then when, when people realized what we were making, they, they said, Oh, wow. Okay. I love this. We want you to mass produce these and like get the box printed too. So I did a Kickstarter for that and, and all of these things. You know, I have to say it was so helpful for me personally to have a project to focus on while I was healing. So I'm really grateful for that. Just the experience of doing something and the, and the funding just came so easily and the pieces just kind of came together so easily and so quickly. Even today, we're 22 months old. It's remarkable. What the universe has provided for me and my mom to do this. So just shortly after the, the first, you know, mass produced printing, we heard about a trade show and you know, we've really just flown by the seat of our pants and kind of figured this out as we've gone. And we decided to go to this trade show and present the cards to the pet retail industry because it seemed to make sense. It's a good place to be. And we won A best new product award in the gifts category at this show, which just said so much about how much there just is a need for pet loss resources. Okay. And, and that it's just an acknowledgement that, Hey, this deserves some attention. Like pet loss support is valid. So We won first runner up, which I think the moon and stars for my, the rest of my family was very disappointed that we didn't run win first place. And I said, no, this is why this is perfect. I'd won first place. I would have come home and put my feet up and, and, you know, looked at my shiny award on the wall. First runner up meant I still have work to do. And yet this is just enough encouragement to give me permission to take risks and financial risks, personal risks. Because at any moment, this really could fail and that's. Kind of exciting, honestly. And, you know, I'm lucky that my husband is so supportive because he's, he's really supporting both of us right now that I pursue this. And he said, you know, honey, the worst thing that's going to happen is we're going to end up with a garage full of card decks that we give out to people we know for the rest of our lives. He's like, that's the worst thing that's going to happen. And wow, what a relief to hear that from someone that you love, you know, but it really did put it in perspective that. Yeah, my mom and I don't know what we're doing. We don't have MBAs. We never brought a product to market. But it's not rocket science. I did try that. And that's hard. And I'm not good at that. So everything else kind of seems easy in comparison when you try to do physics.

Mandy: 32:29

Oh, wow. I love that perspective and the first runner up perspective of like, this is motivating to keep going further. And I love hearing about your husband and how supportive he is. I think that's an important perspective to have that at the very least, you have a way to provide support to others that You wouldn't have had otherwise, which I think is really important and means a lot to those recipients you know, whether that's just people, you know, or it's worldwide and wildly successful. So yeah, I love hearing about all of that. What are you envisioning going forward? What do you have in plans? What are you thinking?

Erica: 33:09

Yeah, I mean, so my vision and my dream and my mission are to make pet loss grief a valid form of grief, just like losing a family member. And I would also love to see Wolfie's wish be Available to anyone anywhere, regardless of the language barrier. So we do have the cards translated. And you're, you're going to be the 1st, you know, we're about to digitize all all the translations for download. And, that way, people can print them at home immediately because I get a lot of calls and emails. Erica, can you FedEx these overnight? I really want to give them to my neighbor. And, you know, we try but to to fill it to have that support be available. I also want to see there be more companies. And people focused on providing pet loss solutions wouldn't it be great to have companies have an HR department that can provide some tools for pet loss grief and provide that bereavement leave? Where do I see us going? I mean, that's still to be determined. I, I really do take it one day at a time. And we're about to, in, in the end of. October launch virtual online support groups led by qualified counselors all around the world. Starting in English, then we've got, we've already got somebody who's a German speaker. So, you know, there's, it's just like, I don't know how long things take to actually become effective or be able to launch. So I don't want to say too much, but I have a lot planned and I have a big stack of things that I want to do. Just don't want to reveal too much of that both for Intellectual property reasons and because I don't want to make promises that I don't keep. Yeah, that

Mandy: 34:51

makes sense. So where can people find the card deck if they wanted to give it as a gift to someone? Yes. So

Erica: 35:00

wolfieswish. com. We have a gift shop there and my mom personally fulfills every order. Bless her heart. We did just hire help. We do two day shipping, so we try to get it out as fast as possible. Just so you guys know. And they are available. They'll be available soon through a company called Spoonful of Comfort. So we've just partnered with them. They do beautiful soup packages with, and you can have blankets and socks and all kinds of like, it's like a hug you send somebody. So definitely stay tuned for when they're available there. And you can go to our Instagram page and that links to the website. So the Instagram is Wolfies underscore wish and that's W. O. L. F. I. E. S. Wish, W

Mandy: 35:47

I S H. Awesome. Thank you so much. I'll make sure I link all of that in the show notes. Is there anything before we stop recording that you wanted to add about your, your experience with grief? Anything that you would want people to know? Yes. Thanks

Erica: 36:02

for asking that. I think if anyone listening is Struggling and questioning, you know, going through pet loss grief to, to really sit and ask themselves, what do they need to do to heal? Because they can, they're the only ones that can answer that and give yourself time and space to find those answers. It's going to be different for a lot of people. And so I don't want to pretend that I have the answers for you. I found my solutions by asking myself. So I just encourage people to do that. And if you really don't know where to go, please come to our website and, and get started there. I've got a blog, YouTube videos. podcasts. I try to provide something for someone and, and hope that I am doing that. And if not, let me know.

36:47

Thank you so much for listening. I'm so grateful to have you back here for season two with me. As a company that specializes in grief, remember Graham's has hoping to launch a new pet support grief box that will include a miniature version of the Wolfies wish card decks. So that you may gift them to breathe. Pet parents. Stay tuned for those and look for links to find Erica in the show notes. As always to support the show please subscribe share your favorite episode with others and visit remember grams.com to send loving support to someone who's grieving take care