Motherloss, Therapy, and Life with Jana Fuchs

When Jana lost her Mom at just 20 years old she was on the brink of adulthood, closing one chapter and beginning the next. We talk to her much later, 24 years after her mother's death and discuss all that has happened in that time- including her work as a psychotherapist and how her personal grief helped her validate and comfort others.

You can find Jana as the host of the Podcast, She Illuminated, or at her website, www.janafuchscoaching.com

Transcript

0:01

Hello, and welcome back to the grief trails podcast. I am your host, Amanda Carnahan from remember grams. A small business dedicated to helping and support those in your life. Experiencing grief. I hope you'll consider sending someone a personalized card or a grief support box shipping within the us is always free. And we treat each origin with special care. Paying attention to every detail. Today, I'm joined by Jana Fuchs, host of the Shia eliminated podcast. Licensed psychotherapist founder of Chicago, relational therapy and soul coach are burnt out. Women Jana was on the very brink of adulthood when she lost her mom. She went on to become a psychotherapist. And today we talk about what those 24 years have been like since her mother's death. How it has shaped both her professional and personal life. Let's take a lesson.

Jana: 0:49

So I was 17 when I had come home from the gym. And I remember the house was really, it felt dark, at least in my memory, the house was dark and I came home to my parents sitting in our family room and just seeming really kind of like, sober and serious. And I they explained to me that they had previously found a mass in my mother's breast that they thought was potentially breast cancer. And It wasn't, but it actually signaled them to a cancerous tumor endometrial cancer, which is a type of uterine cancer. And that was really like, I would call it the beginning of. Chapter two of my life. There's always like, and I feel like anyone who's gone through a significant loss understands that it's kind of like you, I think a lot of us think of our lives and chapters. So chapter one was my very kind of untouched unvarnished, innocent childhood. And you know, I had known one other person. A close family friend, my age who had lost a parent and it was kind of like a, I remember having the thought at that age, like when my friend, I was 11 years old and she had lost her parent and thinking How horrible and awful that must feel for her and just kind of like waking up to that could be me, I guess, one day but like thank God it's not and I'm just gonna keep my blinders on for now while I can. Right. But but then chapter two started. That day of you know, becoming aware of my mother's diagnosis. And she fought the good fight for three years. And. Really didn't want to draw much attention to herself. She wanted to get her treatment in the morning and go to work in the afternoon and carry on as much normalcy as possible and encouraged me to go do all the things that a 17, 18, 19 year old wants to do. And so I went away to college like the rest of my friends trying as best as I could to pretend like everything was normal. And I think. I also wanted to, respect my mom's wishes. yeah. That everything just seemed normal. And so yeah, that's kind of what I did until it became quite apparent that she probably, she probably only had a few months left to live. And at that ti at that point I came home from college to spend that time with, with my mom at home in hospice. So yeah, that was the beginning of chapter two.

Mandy: 3:38

Yeah, that's such a tough age to be at because you're at like this brink of becoming an adult and finding this independence that you haven't had yet. And it's such like an exciting time and people are, you know. Exploring who they are as an adult and then you just have like this heavy weight on top of you that you know is happening in the background and just I feel for you. I think that transitional age is really difficult. Yeah,

Jana: 4:04

that emerging adulthood, you know, and yeah, I mean. I was just talking about this this morning with my husband, who he grew up not due to a death of a parent, but his parents divorced. And he grew up the only male in his household with two older sisters and a mother. And I grew up after my mom died. I mean, yes, I was a young adult, but I was still young and I was the only. Female and left in our household. I had an older brother. I have an older brother and a dad. And so, you know, just this morning, my husband and I were talking about like when something like that happens, and you're the only person left of that kind of like gender, even if you're the youngest in the family, which he is, and I am, you kind of take on extra Yeah. Yeah. Because it's one way to feel in control of the grief and to feel like you are contributing to your family because you take on all the work of, of kind of like what comes with that gender role, just inadvertently, that's great. It's kind of like what

Mandy: 5:11

happens, right? It's almost subconscious the way I think also people expect it from you a little bit, right? I mean, same thing happened to me when my mom died, where it feels like, okay, now you're the surrogate female in the family who we're going to turn to for decisions. And it's, yeah, it's a really difficult place to be in, but especially when you're 20. What was that time period like for you right after? Losing your mom those few years

Jana: 5:36

after that. Oh man, that was so rough. And you know, it's all relative. The way that everyone identifies what trauma means to them is different. But to me, that time felt traumatic. Because I had gone from Being in this really close knit, loving family of four, right? My mom, my dad, my brother, and myself, my parents were high school sweethearts. They had a really nice, beautiful relationship. They would hold hands all the time, like just to my mom died. And within a year, my brother decided to move cross country with his band out to California from Philadelphia, where we all grew up. And my dad started dating someone and sold our childhood home, the only home I'd ever lived in besides my college dorm. And so I lost my mom. I lost the idea of my parents being the only two people for each other. I lost my childhood home. And with it at the time. Kind of felt like I lost a bit of myself because again in early emerging adulthood. It's like we're all trying to figure out who we are anyway. But to not have myself reflected back in the way that like, A mother, an attuned mother can do to not have that felt like my anchor had been yanked out from under me and I didn't even have a home anymore. Right. When I went back to college to finish up because I took off a semester when my mom died. And so I went back the following semester to finish up my senior year. And and then when I would come home on my breaks, it was like, where did I, I didn't really have a place to go home to. So I would like stay with friends because I didn't really want to stay with my dad and his new girlfriend, soon to be wife. I just wasn't, I was still in grief. I was still in grief.

Mandy: 7:43

Yeah. So many of those are these little secondary losses that people aren't considering. That I think so many people, when you lose someone, there are multiple losses that come with that loss, like the loss of a house you know, the loss of relationships and, you going back to college even, and just feeling like you have had, had an experience that your peers haven't. So it's almost like you're coming back in this different state or this different perspective. And, and also the losing of, you know, you've called your mom, like your anchor in this. This person who can reflect back to you, and I think of it like a roadmap, you know, our parents are sort of the roadmap ahead of us. And yeah, see that that map and such a short period is scary to look ahead and think like, is that all I have left and, you know, where do

Jana: 8:32

I go from here. Yeah, yeah, it's I and when I say that time felt traumatic for me. It's really interesting because even just hearing myself talk, like, you know, how I described that day of the diagnosis, it was like very dark. That's the imagery that I have around that day of the diagnosis. But when I think back on the time post, for that, like, first year after my mom died I don't remember it dark, but I like I try to remember it and it's like so blurry and like foggy and you know, and I as a psychotherapist know that when we have traumatic experiences, we don't remember things and chronological. Sequential order the way we kind of store memories, you know, in every day, kind of mundane, neutral memories were able to kind of retrieve those really easily and often very vividly. But when something traumatic happens to us, it's kind of all fragmented. And difficult to remember. It's almost kind of like we have amnesia around it. And so that's kind of how I remember that time. And then for years afterwards, I would have these dreams that I was. I would have many different kinds of dreams are about the loss itself, but a recurring, really interesting dream that I didn't piece together until years later was this recurring dream that I was on a rollercoaster and the ups and downs. And, and, and what I, what I make of that dream is. Yeah. It was like my brain still trying to understand and process your mom is in remission. She's getting better. She just needs this one more, like one more surgery. Oh no, I'm so sorry. The cancer is back. No, no, no. She's better go to college. It's fine. Go, you know, drive the five hours up to school and just do you be normal. We're all going to be positive. She's getting better. Oh no, we're so sorry. You know, she needs another surgery and the ups and downs and. The other piece that I should add is that I never was told about a specific prognosis. So at the same time, even though my father knew because he was a physician, he kept that to himself because he didn't want to take away my mother's hope and, and her fight. Because that also kept her going longer. And this was before Google. So I couldn't Google it. Right. And so it was kind of this almost ignorance is bliss kind of thing. But that ignorance is bliss thing kind of came back to haunt me literally years later by having these dreams of feeling so confused.

Mandy: 11:16

Right. And almost like you can't trust what you know. Right? When someone says, Oh, like, it's okay, but you're afraid to trust that. And just like on the opposite end, you know, things are not okay. But then part of you thinking, well, it will be again, because it has been.

Jana: 11:31

Yeah, yeah.

Mandy: 11:32

It's interesting that, you know, you mentioned you're a psychotherapist. Is that something you had always wanted to do? Like when you went into college? Is that The major that you chose or did that shift somewhere for you?

Jana: 11:43

So since I was as far the furthest back, I can remember it becoming an idea for me, like thinking of it as a possibility was when I was 11 at sleep away camp. And there was another camper young, young girl in my bunk who had come over from England and she was really homesick and having a hard time. And I think some of the kids Maybe weren't so nice to her. I can't quite remember what the issues were, but I remember spending like time and talking to her and my counselor kind of saying to me, you know, like you're so you're such as like a natural listener, you would be an excellent therapist one day, like you really helped her. And it was kind of this like. Wow, really? Like that? I could. Yeah, maybe I could see myself doing that. So that's like the earliest I can remember. And I was kind of always that, friend for people. I'm just comfortable holding space and I'm an empath. So I can Feel easily what someone else might be feeling and put put their feelings into context. And so, when I was in college I started I did start out. I chose the school. I chose because it had a great reputation and in the field psychology. And I dabbled in a bunch of psych courses, but when it came time to declare my major was during one of the times that my mother was on a downturn. And I thought to myself, I am not going to be ready to declare myself as a psych major and go immediately to grad school and do more. Right. And it's like a whole 10 year track ahead of me. I, I cannot even fathom because I don't know what's going to happen. Tomorrow. And so I had also taken a bunch of English classes. I loved reading and literature. And so I just declared myself an English major and figured I could circle back later to psych. And that's exactly what I did. Yeah.

Mandy: 13:39

One little thing that I think is so funny is that you were looking to be a therapist when you were young, because I feel like in our day and age. Therapy was not what it is today where like my kids know about therapy and like people go to therapy and it's totally normalized and everything totally as kids when we were kids that was not the culture so i don't even know if i thought about that as a career as a child i was thinking like teacher you know right the typical

Jana: 14:05

What's really interesting. You say that you're absolutely right. And I mean, I'll, I don't know about you. I'll just say my I'm 44. And so, yeah, that was kind of the case. It wasn't until after my mom died, really, that I engaged with therapy and was like, this is. Such an important job I so respected that first therapist I had. And she's the reason why I think I was like, I'm going back to this. I think I could do this. But it turns out that same counselor now I learned cause Facebook, God bless Facebook. Is, is bipolar and so she probably had experiences herself as a, as a kid being in and out of therapy, I'm guessing. And she was the one who, who told me that. So yeah. Yeah.

Mandy: 14:52

It's fascinating to see how, how we weave through life and find where we're going. So how has grief affected you? Come into play in your work as psychotherapist. I assume that this has come up a lot for you working as a therapist. And like, how has that been shaped by your experience with your mom?

Jana: 15:09

Yeah. So interesting. It has, it comes up all the time. In my work as a therapist it's interesting for me. It has made me maybe surprisingly to other people, but it has made me comfortable, really comfortable with talking about death and loss because I've been there. I think if I had never experienced anything like that, it could trigger me in a different kind. Of a way. And I know that might sound counterintuitive, right? That because it's happened to me, you know, wouldn't it upset me to talk about, someone else going through a similar situation, but actually, no. Because I've been there. It was Awful. It was traumatic and I survived and I know that there's life on the other side and not only life on the other side, but even the potential for so much joy and gratitude. And, you know, on that note, The timing of this, this episode today talking to you it's very relevant and timely because yesterday would have been my mom's 80th birthday and yeah, and we're getting ready to celebrate my father's 80th in, in March and we're trying to plan a trip for him. And so the contrast of. Okay. And here's my mom's 80th and we're not getting to celebrate her. And so I was feeling as This past week, kind of like as the days went by, I felt like I had a lot of eager anticipation for how that was, how I was going to feel yesterday on her birthday. And so I wanted to be very self compassionate and protective with my heart. And I woke up an hour earlier than I needed to, to go for a walk, to just kind of locate myself before going to work. And it was a beautiful day and I was on the nature trail by my house and what I actually was noticing most prominently come up in me was feeling like I just wanted to celebrate. The fact that I had this amazing mother who continues to I know this might sound like hokey, but she continues to bless me with the foundation that she gave me. So when I'm. having a hard time tapping into self compassion for myself or that loud inner critic comes up, which it does all the time. Right. Yes. But I'm able to, I'm able to kind of quiet it down pretty quickly because I'm able to borrow. From what she gave me even now. Right. And that was, I lost her 24 years ago, but she gave me that foundation, like that gift keeps on giving. And I, as I get older and in the work that I do, it's becoming increasingly apparent to me that not everybody. has a mom like the one that I was blessed to have. And so for that reason, I just was so full of gratitude yesterday. And that kind of took me by surprise. So to answer your question, that's what I like to try. And impart onto my clients at the same time that they can just let all of their messy grief hang out because I also know what that's like. Wow.

Mandy: 18:42

I think what a great perspective. And I hadn't thought about that. I had thought about the fact that you've had this experience and that's going to impact how you connect with your clients and their experience, but then. For you to see sort of the opposite spectrum to see parents who don't have a good relationship with their kids and see what that is like and hear about those experiences so often and then to give you a different perspective on even though your mother's life was short, the two of you had a good relationship and she did leave you with

Jana: 19:14

a lot. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I always say like I learn. I think just as much for my clients as they do for me. And that's one of the things I love so much about my work and their resilience, right? For the ones who didn't have, like, that's their grief. The ones who didn't have the kind of mom. That I had, and there's many, many, including some of my closest friends, and so as I get older and learn that, what I grew up with wasn't the norm for everyone, like not, not even close. It's, it's like, the way that I work with those those people is helping them to find. First, what they need in terms of, the fantasy of what a, what a loving, unconditionally supportive parent would say to them. Like, what do they need to hear? And who are their friends and chosen family who can? Tell them the things they need to hear and really kind of tapping into that to internalize those voices.

Mandy: 20:15

And I think it was also a really important point to say that the lead up to this date. you were feeling something in yourself because I think so often before the anniversary of a death and around the person's birthday. Those are like weird times where you know it's coming and you're not quite sure how am I going to feel this year. I think every year we react differently and it's difficult to predict. Yes. And so it's so important, like you said, to give yourself that self compassion for whatever does come up because it could be joy and it could be gratitude but it also could be. It could be the opposite.

Jana: 20:51

Totally. Yeah. Either of those are fine. Yeah. And, and, and I, to be, to be clear, I don't mean to paint this with like rainbows and sunshine. I was fully anticipating. I'm not being great. Yesterday. So when I felt that way, it was such a welcome, like, Oh my gosh, not only am I okay, I'm actually feeling just so, just so grateful. And you know, at the, at the same time that I'm sad and it sucks that I can't just pick up the phone and call my mom. Right. Like I still have those days. Like if you want to hear the harder parts, the truth is I do still have those days. I have moments where like big things happen and I just want to pick up the phone and call my mom and for like a half of a half of a second I forget. And in a way, it's so, kind of cool to forget, like what a relief to forget, right? Because it's like, and that just shows how much I've internalized her, right? And then the sadness, it's immediately followed by like, Such a bummer and so frustrating. I just feel like she's just out of my reach. She's just out of my grasp. And so, and that never really totally goes away, right? Yeah. And so that's the reality. That's, that's the reality of it. And, and the grief, I always tell my clients and like, I'm always relearning myself. It's non linear. And it can bite us in the ass when we are least expecting it. And during COVID, for example, I was so grief stricken. Like many of us were, while there was an upside, of course, of being in sweatpants all the time. Being able to eat whatever we want, whenever we want, and you're in sweatpants, so who cares, right, but everything that was the community and the connection that was kind of being taken away brought up. My grief around my mom all over again, you know, it was just like this thing is being taken away from me. How can I survive without this? How can I survive without my people like that? And I just remember days of just like bawling and I hadn't cried like that since months after my mom died. Wow.

Mandy: 23:12

So yeah. Yeah. And I feel like your story is such a good reminder to everyone that grief is... Everlasting, even though it changes and, and shifts and, you know, morphs into different things, but like, you can sit here 24 years later and say yeah, like, I still really miss my mom and I still think about her and, and I think we cry less, but like, you can still have a moment where something happens and you still like.

Jana: 23:40

Yeah. Yeah. Taking my seven year old daughter for her first time this past year to see the nutcracker. And that's what I used to do with my mom. And it was like, as soon as the overture started, I mean, you know, the way our senses store memories, I mean, the tears just started coming and I, I was like, gosh, I was like, oh, I Sometimes I have these conversations with my tears, like you did not ask me for permission to come right now. Like, this is a really inopportune time. I don't want my, I don't want to like freak out my daughter. Right. But man, it was like the next generation. Right. And I'm 44. My mom was diagnosed when she was 53. She passed away when she was 56. I'm nine years shy. of when she got diagnosed. And I just think that it brings up all of this stuff around, you know, our own mortality. And around like what I teach, what I want, the legacy that I want to pass down to my daughter to have her know how loved she is and traditions and rituals, all of that. Like the tears were just front and center.

Mandy: 24:49

Oh my gosh. Yes. I think I've seen this called the silent threshold that you cross when you age further than our moms did. My mom was 47 and I'm 40 now. And so I'm like in the decade that she, that she died. And so it just, it does, it brings that mortality closer and it makes you think, you know, if I only have seven years left, like. What am I going to do? Yeah, but you know, I don't know. It's just something really interesting to think about. And I thought about it when you mentioned your dad is going to turn 80 this year and that's how old your mom would be. But in your mind and in our minds, it's like they are forever the age. That they were when they died. Like, I can't imagine what, what would my mom look like right now? I have no idea. It's very, and as a female, like, how will I look when I'm an age she never reached? Right? I don't have that mirror in front of me.

Jana: 25:42

So, yeah, and yeah, and my mother's mother also died in her fifties and so I, to kind of like piggyback off what you were just saying, I, I don't have a model either of what do women in my family look like as they age? I have one female, my Father's mother lived to be like 83, but, you know, times were different and she smoked a pack of cigarettes a day. And, you know, I, I hope I look better than she did.

Mandy: 26:18

So I know that you I'm sure you meet one on one with clients who are grieving and you also have facilitated grief groups. What what kinds of things do you try to impart on people who are new to this experience of, like, having just lost somebody really, really close to them? Like, what kind of advice do you give them? Yeah. What do you see come up a

Jana: 26:37

lot? Yeah, it's such a great question. Yeah, I mean, some common things that I, I'll start first with like some common things I hear people say so I can talk about how I respond, if that's okay. Yeah. So, One of the most common things that I hear people say is I don't feel like I'm doing this grieving thing, right? I think First of all, a lot of the people I work with and you know private practice therapy tend to be high functioning you know professionals and so it's almost like They want to achieve, they want to master the task of grieving correctly, like it's a test. Right. And there's like a formula, but no one gave them the book combined with the fact to like the book to study for it and combined with the fact that we live in a culture that does not acknowledge brief beyond like, I don't know, a couple months, maybe. Yeah, at most, right. And so so the next logical conclusion that they draw is, you know, it's been like four months, five months, and I still feel like I don't recognize myself. And that's the other most common thing that I hear. I just feel like I don't recognize myself, I'm forgetting things, I, you know, was really angry the other day in traffic, I'm never normally angry I have been screaming at my kids a lot, just or I feel like this isn't real, like, I feel like I don't know. Life is going on all around me, but my life has totally changed, and everyone is just going on as if the world is normal, and my world is anything but. Right? And these are the things that I hear all the time. And so how do I respond is like, first of all, yeah I hear that all the time. And I personally know what you mean. Right? I think there are you. We're taught as therapists not to be self disclosing unless it is in the client's best interest and intentional as part of the intervention. And with grief, there is a, an appropriate Time where using self disclosure is actually really helpful because it helps people to feel less alone. Grief is a really isolating, lonely place to be. And so I just think being with them in that moment to be like, Yeah, I know. I remember feeling that way, too. And normalizing that it's not normal that we live in a culture that doesn't recognize grief, like validating that that is not normal, right? And then providing them with resources. So groups like referring them to one of my groups or someone, another therapist group or just bereavement groups. And there's all sorts of resources online. There's podcasts like yours. You know, the book it's okay that you're not okay. There's, there's so much out there that people just don't know about. So getting them resourced. Just helps them to feel like, oh, wait, there's a name for this. And actually my reaction is quite normal.

Mandy: 29:59

And it's, it's giving that validation that I think you so desperately need in those moments. Because like you said, people say, I don't think I'm doing this right because people aren't talking about. You know, what is it feeling like four months after a death? And so they look at it and assume like, okay, everyone else is fine and I'm really struggling. And so I must, something's wrong with

Jana: 30:20

me. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and anger, anger, especially it's. With women in particular, right? We are generally raised to stuff our anger away or let it not be seen, cover it up, smile, and, be the nurturer and the human giver that you are, right? And God forbid, we should acknowledge our anger. And anger is the number one emotion. That is associated with grief because it feels more productive to be angry than it does To be sad. Sad feels stagnant and stuck and helpless. Anger is energizing and powerful, right? But the problem is women don't feel like they can engage with their anger. And so I also like to just provide that like psycho education for people that Whatever you feel, including your anger, is welcome here, and it's quite normal. That's awesome.

Mandy: 31:27

Yeah. Do you ever provide advice for loved ones who have someone who's grieving and they don't know how to support them, and what would you say to them as a psychotherapist? How do they best be there for

Jana: 31:39

that person? Yeah. Don't speak in cliches. That is the worst. Right. Every don't, don't ever say everything happens for a reason. God doesn't give anybody what they can't handle. I mean, if that's something that you personally believe for yourself. More power to you. And if that helps you personally, that's wonderful. I'm not bashing that, but not everybody feels that way. And so please make sure not to project your own personal beliefs on someone else because it actually could make them feel worse. So the best thing you can do is to first and foremost, just acknowledge Thank I just want to say I know that this must be an extraordinarily difficult time for you and I'm here. I'm thinking about you. I love you and please let me know however I can support you, right? Yeah. Perfect. Right. It's not, it's simple and it's not trying to fix it. It's not trying to fix it. And it's not being dismissive. We all need acknowledgement and support and validation. So that's what you do when you say something like that. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. And I do just want to say you know, in addition to being a psychotherapist my most recent career news is that in addition to my, to my podcast, she illuminated I am also expanding into women's coaching for burnt out women and specifically working with a lot of moms around burnout because one of the, and this. Ties back to grief because one of the things that I experienced when I became the only woman left in the household, even though I was the baby of the household is that I started to over function. Right. And like we were speaking about earlier, and that's kind of been a default coping strategy of mine ever since then. And so I'm very familiar with burnout and taking care of everybody else. Go figure. I'm a therapist. And so but I've learned some, some tips and tricks over the years. And so this is also. Like one of the number one things that I see in my practice. So many women and moms specifically who struggle with burnout. And I, I observed very often that burnout also comes from their over functioning from grief, from the narratives about what women are supposed to be and do right from a whole host of reasons, but grief. And, and the narratives about women and gender roles are two of the biggest ones. So. That's kind of like my, my latest you know, area of interest. And I just wanted to kind of like pass that on. Yeah.

Mandy: 34:35

I love that you sort of had this early, early adulthood experience that was obviously. Earth shattering for you, but then later in life, like looking at it 24 years down the road, you've sort of taken that and morphed it into different parts of your life. So, you know, you brought it into your work as a therapist and now you're bringing it into this work with women and, and it's gonna continue to color and shape whatever it is that you're out in the world. And doing an offering to people, it's such an important lens because it is so commonplace. And it is such a universal experience for people to go through, whether it be the grief of, you know, a parent or somebody super close or the grief that comes with our daily lives. Right. You mentioned COVID and we, you know, we think about jobs and, and roles and marriages and things like that, which all bring about grief. And. The skills that you have and that you've learned how to talk through with people in therapy are also the same skills that I'm sure you're applying and in this new realm with burnout. They're,

Jana: 35:37

they're, they're similar. They're similar. The difference is with therapy, my clients, I have to diagnose them, which don't get me started. That's a whole other episode, but right, it's a medicalized model. And for insurance reimbursement, we have to diagnose with something granted. Many of my clients could. are arguably be coaching clients, many of my therapy clients. But, you know so I, I like to draw that distinction for people that if you're engaging with coaching, it's not for a clinical mental health struggle. But it's for life circumstances. That are very human and hard. It doesn't mean you have a clinical mental health disorder and P. S. Many of your listeners probably already know, but grief is not a diagnosis, right? It's normal to grieve. Right. It's an emotion and it's a, it's we don't have to pathologize it. So, yeah.

Mandy: 36:36

Yeah. I really like that distinction. I hadn't thought about that as like the medicalized model and then

Jana: 36:41

yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah.

Mandy: 36:44

So if you want to mention the name of your podcast again, but also your website and I'll make sure all of that gets put into the show notes for people so they can find you. They're interested and connected. Yeah.

Jana: 36:53

If anyone is interested. If you're interested in connecting with me further, I'm not currently accepting therapy clients at this time, but I am accepting coaching clients, and you can reach out to me at Janna, that's J A N N A, at janna. org. Fuchs coaching. com. And Fuchs is F as in Frank, U C H S as in Sam, Jana Fuchs, coaching. com. And my podcast is called she illuminated. So feel free to check that out too.

37:25

I hope you enjoy today's discussion with Janna. At the beginning of the episode, she describes remembering the conversation where she learned about her mother's diagnosis as dark and the memories of the year after the death as fuzzy. As a braiding prompt today, consider a monumental moment in your life. Write about what comes up with this memory. What colors smells details. Come to mind. Thank you so much for listening. Please make sure you subscribe, share this episode with anyone who could benefit from it and as always visit, remember grams. Anytime you need to send a little love to someone who is grieving. Thank you and have a wonderful day