The Loss Shapes the Grief with Desiree Doucet

Desiree, a certified grief educator and coach, joins us to openly share the stories of how she lost each of her parents. One to sudden loss, one to a slow decline from a neurologic disease that required Desiree to become a caregiver.  Join us to find the connection that can happen when we talk about our grief and see where in life it takes us.

To connect with Desiree, check out her website, www.desireedoucet.com, or some of her free resources below: 

"Understanding Grief: 12 Essential Insights", anyone may download it here: https://desireedoucet.com/understanding_grief/

A free webinar on "Graceful Grief during the Holidays" - can be accessed here: https://desireedoucet.com/graceful_grief_mc/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/desiree.doucet/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/desireedoucetcoach
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/desireedoucet/

Transcript

0:01

Hello, and welcome back to the grief trails podcast. I am your host, Amanda. Kernaghan from remember grams. A small business dedicated to helping you support those in your life. Experiencing grief. I hope you'll consider sending someone a personalized card or a grief support box. Shipping within the us has always free and we treat each order with special care paying attention to every detail. Today on the podcast is Deseret. Doucet a certified grief educator and professional coach who works with women as they navigate midlife. Does Ray experience sudden loss as a young person, when her dad died unexpectedly. And later in life, she lost her mom in a slow decline where she became her caretaker. Through these contrasting experiences, Deseret knows firsthand. The grief is a human emotion. And it can bring us to unexpected moments of connection. If we allow ourselves. The safety and opening up to others. Opening up is exactly what Deseret does here with us today. Let's take a listen. As she brings us back to the loss of her dad.

Desiree: 1:04

That was something that it was very surprising he passed two days after Christmas. We had just had. A really great Christmas together as a family. And I was about to graduate from college. So the way that I was the youngest of what he called the first crop. So the first, my parents were married for 22 years and I was the youngest of their children. And then he got remarried and they had two children. And so that was the second crop. And so when he would introduce me, sometimes that would be me and him. And then my half. brother or whatever. And they'd be like, Oh, is this your daughter? And he'd be like, yeah, she's the youngest from the first crop. But my dad and I had this special bond, especially the three musketeers, like me and my half brother and my dad, partly because I was of babysitting age when he was born. So it was very convenient because my dad did not change diapers. And my stepmom would go off, you know, and do girl things on Saturdays. And and then my dad would get Left with a kid and he'd be like you need to come over and visit. So we bonded a lot but my dad and I had like a conversation that the evening of when he died and my sister and I went to the movies together and one of our things that we got to have when we were in school was he never wanted us to use the excuse that we couldn't afford gas to come visit him. So he gave us a gas credit card. And so she was like, let's go to the gas station and stock up on candy and shove it in our purse and go to the movies. And so we had gone to the movies that day. And while we're at the movies, he left me a voicemail or this was back in the day of the answering machines. I was fancy and had a digital one, but he left me a message. And that was the last I called him afterward. And we're going to have lunch the next day. I was going to drive, you know, lived about an hour from where he lived. I was in school and. Go have lunch with him. And the next thing I knew, my sister was tracking me down and telling me that he had died of a massive heart attack. And it was shocking. I had a cousin pass away about three weeks before that in a car accident. And that was also shocking, but I knew the tone of voice when my sister called me that something I was like, this is, this is a repeat of what I. Spoke to her three weeks ago. I just knew. And so that was, it was really, it rocked my world because it put us, you know, I just turned 21. I was about to graduate from college. I was choosing where I wanted to live and work and it was a pivotal time and ended up deciding to move out of Louisiana. I'm born and raised in Louisiana. So I moved away. Partly to run away from the memories, and start a new life. And so I think that really did make very different decisions for me. It's it spurred me in a different direction. And so I've been living outside of Atlanta for 24 years now. Wow.

Mandy: 3:56

Yeah. I was also in my 20s. My mom also died of a heart attack. It was very sudden. And so that experience, I know what you're talking about when you're like, it was so shocking. And I think at that age, we just are so oblivious to the things that can happen. And you just feel so secure and your parents and, and if you have no reason to question their health or anything like that, you just assume they're still going to be there. And it can absolutely just rock the access that you're on. yeAh. At such a pivotal point in your life, right? You know, you're just getting ready to launch into your independence and adulthood. So, so that is what made you decide to move away instead of staying. I feel like for some people they have the opposite reaction where they want to like stay closer because of that. And some people want to move further away.

Desiree: 4:42

Yeah, I think, you know, it's interesting because looking back on it now, I remember somebody that I knew a friend from college was like, I can't believe you finished school. And I was like, girl, what choice did I have? Like, my dad was the financial rock of our family. And I had to get out and start making money. I didn't have a choice. I didn't see myself as having a choice to grieve. People didn't know what to say to me. And I remember walking around at campus, you know, it's the beginning of a semester and it's my last semester and I had a really cool student job. I worked in the athletic department doing their computer support. It was crazy fun and people would be like, you're a girl and you could take apart. It was really cool, but I had a really cool boss. And we were busy, you know, closing out a new state is a lot of work, a lot of paperwork. Because of the family dynamic. You know, we were involved a lot. And so it was just, it was a lot to deal with in that last semester, before I moved away. And even afterwards. But it was like, I would walk through the world and I was like, people don't even know that my whole life, your foundation is rocked. And so it was a very different experience. My mom passed in 2019. We'll get to that in a little bit. Very different experience. And I went to grief educator training, partly to help me heal. And I trained with a gentleman named David Kessler. He's a grief expert. He's an amazing human being. He's a therapist. And he said that death shapes the grief, or the loss shapes the grief. Because grief is not just the loss of our loved ones. It is a recurring theme. It's a human experience. We, I don't think we give credit to other forms of grief besides just losing people. But he says the, the loss shapes the grief. And I saw that so clear with the loss of both my parents. Cause my dad was sudden and I said, wow, that's like exhausted from being hit from a traumatic. Experience like being hit by, you know, a large vehicle, like being a pedestrian trying to cross the street and a large vehicle hits you. It is traumatic. It takes you down and it's just like, wow. Whereas after my mom had a prolonged illness and so after caregiving for her and watching her slip away, that was like being exhausted at the end of a marathon, if that makes sense. Yeah. I like that comparison. Yeah. So but anyway, in between, I kind of had a break in my losses, which was a little bit nice. But I had, it's like, thanks. Thanks for the break life. I appreciate that. But we surely made up for it in the last couple of years. I, I was married. I got married and I want to say it was 2013. My then father in law got diagnosed with mesothelioma. He was in the Navy, and it was a service related illness. He was on submarines in the 60s, and that is a very common, it's lung cancer formed caused by asbestos. I don't know if you know about that, but it's terminal, and there's really, they can treat it, but there's really not anything they can do. And it's a very specialized cancer. So walking through that and I just jumped into like giving mode of I've been through this journey and it's hard and let me love them as much as I can. And that was a hard journey. And then, and I was already in my marriage was already in trouble. And we were in counseling and grief doesn't help that at all. No. And, and then shortly after he passed, I got some information that I was like, my marriage is over. And that was hard. And then I got talked out of it. And then his mom got diagnosed with cancer and he was like, well, you can't leave. And it was just, it was a really hard time. And but I was like, something's wrong with my mom. But my mom was one of those people that was just like, I'm fine. I don't know what it is, but when her voice started changing and she couldn't swallow and we take her to a GI doctor, we take her to, you know, and they were like, you really need to get in with a neurologist in the town she lived in. There was a shortage of neurologists. And so that took a lot. And it. My aunt ended, my mom's sister ended up going and sitting in the office, sitting in the waiting room, like, I am not leaving until my sister gets an appointment with somebody. And so she was, she had a preliminary diagnosis of ALS, but they had to rule a couple. ALS is a disease of like, they have to rule everything else out before they can say, yeah, you have it. It's a disease that's not really understood very well. And so she got diagnosed and and my sister said, well, at least we have a diagnosis now. And I'm like, well, there's nothing we can do about this one either. My mom didn't really want any massive interventions, you know, kind of quality of life stuff. anD that was really difficult because my sister and I both live out of state. So I live about. 9 to 10 hours by car from her and my sister lives about 12 to 14.

Mandy: 9:41

And so we're like, Hey, I mean that diagnosis is scary. Like, let's just say that because it's not like you know, I think when people think about terminal illness, you often think of cancer. And ALS is not a cancer, but it is a degenerative disease that causes really severe, terrible symptoms that are. Just devastating to watch so and you knew she was going to need help at that

Desiree: 10:05

point. Oh, oh, yeah And we're like, okay, where do you want to move? Atlanta Kansas City where where she's like, I'm not moving and we're like, okay, so, We both had jobs that allowed us to work remotely. My job was remote. Thank goodness. And my bosses were super understanding and I felt like I had just started to get back up from my divorce because that really knocked me back a lot more. And then I lost 2 pets in the middle of the year. And you just, at some point you become so numb, that it doesn't even, you don't even feel things anymore. And so. My mom, I had gone to yoga teacher training, which that was a blessing in between like the end of my divorce and my mom getting diagnosed. And I needed that. So I spent a lot of time with my mom and my sister and I just looked at each other and we're like, no regrets. We know what it's like to lose a parent. No regrets. And ALS is, we didn't know anything about it. I remember when my mom was sick and we were trying, where it was before her neurologist appointment, there's a gentleman who played, so I'm from Louisiana, so everybody's Saints fans. And there's a player from the Saints. And he is diagnosed with ALS, uh, Steve Gleason is his name. And so he's got the Gleason Foundation. And I remember my cousin posted something like an interview with Steve Gleason. And I was watching it and I was like, this is what mom has. And I knew it. And it was so horrible for me to even consider it. I was like, no, she doesn't. But something inside of me knew that that's what she had. And, so I started learning a little bit about it. You know, it's degenerative, it's a neurodegenerative, so it impacts your whole body and she had both forms, so she had bulbar and limb which means that they lose the ability to swallow and when you're Cajun, you kind of live for the food, it's so conflicting, so that was really, it was hard, you know, like you start to feel guilty about eating around her and she can smell it, but she can't have any, and it just, it was, It was a constant, the care. I did not understand the care. I had never been involved in. It's just a lot. And you don't even have time. You're so physically exhausted. You're emotionally exhausted. And then we were both trying, we have a brother that lives down there and we had my mom's two sisters. My mom was unmarried. And so the kids really, we were pulling the night shift. So from 7pm to 7am, and we were lucky enough to be able to afford having caregivers during the day. So 7am to 7pm, we had people there, but she wasn't sleeping through the night. So our sleep was trash. And then she decided to, at the last minute to get a feeding tube, which that was, it was just, one thing that I learned is when you're dealing with someone who has a terminal illness, if I could give any direction is have empathy for their journey. And their choices, because you can look at, and I learned this in coach training schools, you know, we don't know what's best for somebody else, but it can be very easy when someone has a terminal illness to say, this is what you need to do. And I was politicking for my mom to get that feeding tube and she didn't want it and she didn't want it and she didn't want it. And then at the last minute she decided to get it. And I was on a business trip. I had a business trip planned for. You know, some business meetings across the country. And it was, it was scary. And I was, I was a little bit angry and I was like, what if she dies? And I'm, you know, on my way to Portland, Oregon. And how do I, you know, like, this is, it just was freaking me out, but it also forces you to let go to some degree. anD one thing that I would like to instill, if somebody's in the middle of a caregiving journey, well, understanding that there's anticipatory grief. So there's grief before you even have the loss. But one thing I remember having this conversation with my mom's hospice nurse, we had the most incredible care team for my mom. And is that you can have moments of joy in the middle of losing someone. And we had an amazing last birthday for my mom. I kept saying, what do you want to do for your birthday? She's like, I don't want to do anything. And she hated goodbyes. Just even like leaving my nephews, you know, when she went to visit, it was just hard for her. And. I didn't think that she wanted, you know, I don't think she wanted to know what was going to happen for her birthday because it would feel like a giant day of goodbyes and we planned. She would go to bed like super early and so we decorated the whole house like we got streamers and put them in all the doorways and we had like stuff hanging from everything all over the ceiling. We had silly little party hats and everybody in silly little glasses and everybody that came over had to put it on and take pictures with her so. It was just an incredible day and it was almost like a living memorial so that she, I said, mom, if there is any gift in your illness, it's so that you can see how much you are loved before you leave this earth. And I wholeheartedly believe that she knew how much she had been loved because she had poured so much love and care into other people. And so that gives me satisfaction. Beautiful memory. Yeah. And we had a lot of fun and like when she got the feeding tube, I'm not going to lie. Like I'm a squeamish. I am not like the hospice nurse was like, you would be a great nurse. I'm like, what kind of craziness are you thinking? I would not be a good nurse. I would pass out. I was like, I do this because I love my mother. It's called a peg tube and that's the type of feeding tube she had. So I was like, I would, it scared me because I was like, what if I get squeamish and I can't do this? What if I can't care for her? And so I was like, let me just turn this into funny. So I would just take the tube and I talk into it like a microphone and be like, good morning, Peggy. How are you doing in there? Did you have a good night of sleep? And it was, it brought some levity to the situation. And I was like, you know, we're going to make the best out of this. And we tie dyed her hot when she had to get a hospital bed. We tie dyed her sheets. We got her white sheets and I tied item and, and I would send pictures to the hospice nurse and he'd be like, y'all got it going on, you know, and I tied, I'd heard this dress with a A red heart in the center and when the funeral home came to pick her up, they were like, what do you want her to dress in? And I was like, we're, we're sending her with the hippie dress. She's gonna, she's gonna go off with that. And it was just, it's a time where you're really tested you're exhausted, but there's also so much beauty. And Brene Brown shares is you can't selectively numb and you want to numb the pain, but those joyful memories are priceless. Did it

Mandy: 16:53

feel for you, because you had the experience of losing your dad in such a different way, did it feel like you sort of got a do over with your mom, where you got to like, say things or have these memories with her that you didn't get to do with your dad, right, because it was so sudden, and you didn't know it was coming?

Desiree: 17:11

One thing that I did, that's a great, you just jogged a memory of something I'd love to share. In a way, yes. And I remember leaving one day, it was probably about two months before she died, and thinking, I don't want to leave her but I needed to, I mean, I have a house, you know, like somebody's got to come back here and check on the thing. And I did have some work responsibility. I mean, I had things, I had a life, you know, I needed to come home occasionally. I could stay about two weeks, then I have to come home for, a couple days, then I go back. And I had the most flexible schedule because I was single and didn't have kids. But I was like, how can I feel good about this, knowing that my time with her so limited. So I would sit down every day and write her a letter. And I'd print it off. It was just, you know, I type it out. And it was about a memory that we had or something that I admired about her or just sharing. I, I don't, I don't even remember all of them, but every day I committed to doing that. It only took me 10 or 15 minutes and I would put it in the mail and I would mail it to her. And I have like a bunch of old Christmas envelopes. So it was like wacky. I was like, I'm just going to use what we have. And she never acknowledged them to me. She never said, I got your, I mean, she couldn't speak, but she never communicated to me that she ever read them. And so I had asked the caregivers, I'm like. Are my little red envelopes, like, are they getting there? She's like, yeah, they are. And cause I didn't know cause my mom, I think it was just probably too painful. And some of them she threw in the trash. My mom still, she could not speak anymore, but you certainly got her personality. It came through there. This whole nonverbal communication is a thing. Like she could tell you with one look in her eyes that she was displeased and you knew exactly why. And so, you know, she didn't, she didn't keep them all, but it was my way of knowing that I had been able to communicate. It was my opportunity to communicate with her how much I loved her, how much she meant to me, the things that I remember. And I would love to turn those letters into a book one day. Because being able, that was such a gift for me to do that. And, you know, past me would have been like, put expectations on others. Like you guys should do this. If somebody hears this podcast episode and they have the idea and it gives them peace and enclosure. And, you know, I'd love, I'd love for people to be able to read about that. My nephews, I mean, even if it's just my nephews and my sister. But one thing that I realized a lot in her passing and, or in my grief education is. All of our relationships are so different. I had a very different relationship with my dad than my brother did. So he mourned his loss very differently. My dad was really hard. He didn't know how to relate to a son, the family dynamic on that side of the family. They're just mean to each other. The fathers and sons can just be really awful. Whereas daughters are, it's a totally different relationship. So my, I think my brother was closer to my mom. So that loss was harder on him. And You know, my sister and I were talking about it and she was grieving very differently and she's like, why are you not crying? And I'm like, oh, I've been crying for a year and a half and she just, you know, We all just have different relationships. We're going to grieve losses differently Every and what i've come to understand is like, you know, we grew up in the same family But my sister's six years older than me. So even yesterday she was like, well didn't papa teach you how to do blah blah blah And i'm like girl you had to a two parent family until you went to college when I was 12 Our parents got divorced. Like, by the time I had a car, nobody would care. It was like, here's the grocery list, go shopping. Like, you know, like, no. I was like, he had two young kids. Like, he didn't have time for me. He didn't teach me anything about car maintenance. I learned it on YouTube. You know, reading the manual and so she was like, wow, it's been enough of those experiences for her to realize like my relationship, her relationship with my brother and my relationship with my brother, very different and the dynamic is different. Our parents are different. And so. One thing that has given me such grace in understanding grief journeys is we're all going to grieve differently. And the grieving is this internal process. The mourning is what you see, the crying and the processing. And also understanding how to be supportive to people in grief. If someone loses someone close to them, even if they're like an acquaintance, I will go to the funeral. Because I know how much it meant to me to be there to witness their grief and I could not explain it, but I was like, I always go to the funeral. My sister and I have this rule. We're like, we always go to the funeral. I never regret it. And when I took David Kessler's grief educator class, he said, the most healing thing that we can do for other people in grief is to witness their grief. And if we can have a nonjudgmental space where we allow them to share openly. And he said, you know, the only time it's okay for you to interject with your story is, is if it's in service to them. And he's like, nobody wants to win the struggle Olympics. We don't, comparison is not going to help. And I was like, Oh, that's so beautiful. And I love the way that he distilled all of that because it's helped me help other people. Like, I don't know what to say. I'm like, you don't have to say anything. Right. You just, just go be present.

Mandy: 22:43

And to do that also outside of services, like to a week or two or a month later, or two months later, ask the person to go on a walk and just be quiet and let them talk if they want to talk and let them be quiet if they want to be quiet. And, you know, Those kinds of things, making time without expectation, making time for silence and quiet and letting them have that space but with a supportive person is I think the greatest gift we can give

Desiree: 23:09

each other. Yeah, because we're seeing the other person in their humanity. And the other thing that I would offer is One thing that people are afraid of is bringing up the anniversary. So their, their birthdates and their anniversary of the loss and. It was David Kessler told this really interesting story and in our training, and he said, I remember it was like, you know, 9 years after I lost my mom or it had been a period of years. And he said, you know, it's been 9 years today since I lost my mom. And he was talking to a coworker or somebody in his circle. And they said, wow, you know, it's been 9 years. Like, you know, you. You're still thinking about that. And he was like, let me guess. You've never had someone close to you. You've never lost someone close to you. And they were like, yeah, yeah, you're right. And they were like, how'd you know? And he was like, because if you had, you would understand and. Another thing that has, so I, so mention it, don't be afraid to mention it because they're thinking about it. 99 percent chance they, they are aware. And if they're not aware, something in their body is remembering the time of year. So my dad died two days after Christmas. My mom died two days after Thanksgiving. I'm like, thanks! That was fantastic! So it's not, you know, the fourth quarter is not the most fun for me, but it's okay because I give myself grace. And I'm like, I am going to make new memories. And I jokingly, after my mom died, my sister, you know, we were like, we can go to dinner. We can go out to, let's go get cheese dip and margarita. It's like, we're free, right? It's, but we got to the restaurant. She's like, can we ask for a table in the back so we can sit and cry like in a box? This is sad, but yeah, we also saw the humor in it, but I looked at her and I said, I just feel so unmoored, like. We don't have parents anymore. And I was like, and I'm divorced and I don't have children. I'm in my 40s. I'm probably not gonna have kids. Maybe I'll adopt one day. I don't know. I mean at this point It's like I don't even know what to expect out of life, which is fine because it's kind of like a surprise, but I was like, I'm unsupervised. I said, there's nobody that can tell me what to do. Right. And so I was like, this is, it's frightening, but it's also exhilarating. And so I was like, if I wanted to go, you know, to Cancun for Christmas or to who knows, you know, like, maybe I want to go to Switzerland and spend Christmas there. Like I have the margin to do it. And so that's what I'm stepping into my new life. And then I got back to work and COVID hit and I knew my job was in jeopardy. I lost my job. And I was like, what do I want to be when I grow up? Because even though I loved my career and I was good at what I did I didn't want to do that anymore. And so that's when I jumped into grief educator, being a coach and helping people navigate. I feel like my passion is helping people navigate difficult stuff and not lose their sense of self and their joy, their appetite for joy and staying in that growth mindset of What can I take from this moving forward in my life? And so that's what I've been focused on building this business and healing. And healing takes time, especially when you have multiple losses, give yourself grace.

Mandy: 26:34

Wow. I mean, it is weird the way things work out. You know, I'm sure when you were 21, you didn't think you were going to be a grief educator, but here you are. And. I also I wanted to go back to this point you talked about how you wrote the letters to your mom, and I think that's an amazing idea for a tool for people, because sometimes saying things out loud feels too vulnerable. So even though you are with your loved one and you know that they're passing away, but you just feel like I can't bring myself to say it or say the things that like I'm feeling really deep down. And I think some people are just express themselves better in writing verse in. Speech. I'm one of those people. I'm much better at expressing myself and writing. And I think that's a great idea for people to keep in their back pocket. You know, if there are things you feel like you need to say they want to say writing is a great option for that. And then it's out of their hands, right? Whether they respond to it or not is totally up to them and you know that you put it out there. So I thought that was a really great nugget, but I want people to be able to think about or keep in mind for themselves if that ever comes

Desiree: 27:46

up in their life. And let people know how much you love them. Like, even if they're not sick take the time to put your phone down and look people in the eye and be present with them. I think that we understand how much our presence is a gift even more so now in our distracted Age. And I've also heard of people who know that they are passing, like I've heard from reading and other ALS support groups. I'm still in a lot of those groups just because I like to offer support and guidance. Everybody's ALS journey is a little bit different, but those who have been there. Have helped me the most in my divorce in any journey that I've been on. And so it's my way of giving back to that community. But I've also read that people, you know, with a terminal illness may sit down and write letters to, their grandkids of, like, to be opened on the day of their graduation. And I think that that's also a beautiful gift. But it depends on, you know, people navigate it. Those times of difficulty very differently with different attitudes, different perspectives, but that time that you have together, I see it as a gift. And so soak up as much of that life together that you have. That would be my, you know, if that's what you, if that's what you feel called to do, some people just don't want to, they don't want to feel. And, and I will say that feelings can be completely overwhelming, but the more that we suppress them, the more that they grow. And so even though you're afraid to feel and you feel like I'm never going to stop crying, there will be a point in time. where the feelings will move through you. And if you feel like you need professional help, there's no shame in getting that, whether it be medication, therapy, talking, you know, talking to people who have been there. There, I think it's the whole grief educator model that David started. You can work with peers, you can work with coaches, and you can work with licensed therapists and counselors. And so I love that he, he's like, I just want people to be out there educating about what grief is, because it's a universal human experience. And I think that's so awesome because people don't want to talk about it. Like they didn't want to talk, they want to talk about the weather and they want to talk about football and like the fun stuff of life. Right. Nobody wants to talk about the sad stuff, but I'm here to say. The sad stuff doesn't have to be depressing and sad. It can be beautiful, and it can be loving, and it can be meaningful. And we can say it was hard, but it was worth it.

Mandy: 30:28

And it can be so validating to talk about it and to find other people who've been through similar experiences that dealt with it similar ways. And we, underestimate how powerful that can be. Yeah, out of curiosity, just because you know, you've lost both your parents and you've gone through grief educator training and done coaching. So I'm sure you're working with a lot of people who've been through grief. Do you have any ideas or tips for people about those birthdays and anniversaries and how different ways that you've approached those over

Desiree: 30:58

the years? What I love to do is honor them on their birthday. So do something to honor them. So my mom's birthday was in August and I made her favorite coconut cake. And then I gave it to anybody who would want to eat it. And it was hilarious cause I went to Walmart to get, you know, to get cake mix and usually just buy a white cake mix. And Dolly Parton has this line of coconut cake mixes. And I was like, oh, we're going to make a Dolly Parton cake. So I made the Dolly, you know, anyway, it was every year. It's a little bit different. And I'm like, my mom would love this. The Dolly Parton cartoon is on the front of the box. And anyway, so that's what I did for my mom's birthday. My dad's birthday is coming up in November and I happen to be going to a conference in Orlando and they had a VIP option. And my dad took us to Disney a lot. I went even, I went, even as like a young adult to babysit his kids at night so they could go to dinner, built in babysitter. And anyway, so I have a lot of memories of him at Disney and they had this day where you could spend a day at the park with an imagineer. And it happened to be on his birthday. And I said, okay, Papa, I'm going to spring for it and do this. Because I know that you're going to be with me. And so it's my way of honoring him on his birthday. I will. I will do something for, you know for others that would in a way that he would serve others, or I'll talk to my siblings about memories. It's, you know, it depends on, I kind of feel like if you get still and you ask them, like, what is something that, you know, what is something that would mean something or what would you like me to do? The other thing that I am so surprised about is they come through in various ways. So the, the cool part was because we knew we were losing my mom, like she was like, I want to go with this funeral home and this is what I want my burial to be like, and whatever. And the funeral home was like, we do these butterfly releases. Would you like to do a butterfly release? And I was like, I had never heard of that. So I asked my mom. And she's like, yeah, let's do that. And so she died at the end of November in Louisiana. I mean, it was kind of warm, but it was kind of cool. And people started seeing butterflies within hours. And they were like, you never see butterflies this time of year. And I've just had incredible encounters with butterflies since she's left. And so. It's I mean, I'll see a butterfly and an usual spot or it'll fly right in front of my face and land on a branch. I'll take a picture and send it to my sister. And so watch out for those signs, especially around the time of year. And if you're having a rough time, like, if you just. Not doing well, check in with the date and just check and say, does something happen around this time of year where I experienced a loss and I'm just, my body remembers the time of year. Those memories are like encoded in us and just give yourself grace to say, you know, I'm, I'm struggling today. It's the anniversary, it's near the anniversary of the loss of this person. And okay, what can I do to honor them? And so for me, it's activities or food. I mean, of course I'm Cajun. So there's a lot of food is very central to my culture. So it, you know, it's, it's different ways calling relatives that are still living and asking to hear about stories. Yeah, just finding whatever your family traditions are that would honor them, your family or cultural traditions. I love

Mandy: 34:32

that and such a good point about how we do feel those losses in our bodies. It is the strangest thing to think about that, like you cannot be conscious. Of what's approaching and yet you're like, why am I so grumpy? Like, why am I so exhausted this week? I just can't focus, you know, whatever it is for you. I'm not able to sleep all of a sudden and I'm a great sleeper, but this past week I'm just like struggling and tossing and turning and then you realize like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's next week. And I just I find that to be fascinating that are you literally on a cellular level know it's coming. Whether you want to admit it or not.

Desiree: 35:12

Yeah. And so, you know, my, the lesson that I take from that is. It's going to come up, you might as well feel your feelings and let it, and let it move through. Because it's, it's like trying to put a lid on a volcano, it's going to come out and I feel that it's healthier to express those emotions so that we don't store them in our body. And then and then we're carrying that around and then, you know, something happens and, and then other people experience the explosion.

Mandy: 35:44

Thank you so much for sharing your story. And so, I mean, I love talking to you. You have a great energy. And even with everything that you've been through, I can tell that you're just taking life one day at a time and exploring this new space that you're in. And I think you're going to help so many people just going into grief education and coaching. And I think you have the right personality for it. And I love that you're focusing on the joy that's in the experience because it is always there whether people realize it's going to be and recognizing that it's okay to find joy and all of that also is super important. Where can people find you if they want to connect with you?

Desiree: 36:22

I have a website. So it's Desiree Doucet. com. So D E S I R E E D O U C E T. It's a Cajun last name. My dad named me. So that's why my name is French. And yeah, he liked unusual names. And then I'm also on Instagram. So Desiree dot Doucette and then Facebook Desiree D Doucette and there's a coaching page or you can follow my personal page. I do share some stuff publicly just little bits and stories, inspirational stuff. I feel like I've spent probably my first 20 years of life feeling like life just happened to me. I didn't understand it. And people that were happy. It just. They puzzled me. That's

Mandy: 37:03

fascinating because you seem so happy. I just have this like vibrant energy talking to you. You look like someone who's probably always been a very happy person.

Desiree: 37:12

That is not the case, Amanda. I was miserable. I told my sister, I was like, this person in college aggravated me because they were happy. And I discerned that they were happy because their life was perfect. It wasn't their perspective. And the interesting thing is when we realized that it's our perspective I did not uncover my sense of humor until I was divorced. And I think there's some correlation there to experiencing pain and going to really deep and dark places and healing that at a, at that level that enables you, it's allowing your, you're not numbing anymore. You're feeling. And so you're feeling really deeply and it hurts, but it also opens up this beautiful world of joy and connection. And it's that vulnerability piece, that Brene Brown talks about. And so, you know, I just, I walked through the world so differently and I absolutely love Edwin McCain. He had this song that came out this album that came out towards the end of, while I was in college and not a lot of people remember him. He had a couple of hits, but one of the songs he wrote, he said, anywhere I'm going takes everywhere I've been. I've done a lot of living that I wouldn't care to do again, but I wouldn't change a mile, I swear, on the road that'll get me there. And That's how I feel about my life. I would not want to relive the pain that I've been through, but I am excited for my future. And I want people to know that if you're walking through it right now, that it's okay to not be okay. And it's okay to step back and heal, but look for those moments of connection because you can be the lighthouse in someone else's storm. And you can change, you don't have to be Eeyore for your whole life, you know, you can turn into Tigger. Yeah.

Mandy: 39:05

I mean, look at you. You've done it. Living proof.

Desiree: 39:09

Yeah. So thank you so much, Amanda. This was amazing. I really have loved connecting with you and I can't wait to share your business with With people who are walking through this journey and help them keep those memories alive of, of your loved ones, because their spirits, I remember telling my ex husband when his dad was dying, I said, the way that they have impacted you will live on in you. Long after they're gone. So don't ever forget that.

39:39

I hope you enjoyed our episode today. Deseret story spans her lifetime, but her losses are close to the holidays. As this airs, we are in the thick of the holiday season. One that can be especially tough for those and acute grief. Are those who struggle with anniversaries or other memories around this time of year. As I leave you. I hope you will give yourself grace to do whatever feels right this season. As Deseret said she can up and decide to go to Cancun for the holidays. If she wants. And while you might not be able to hop on a plane, you can choose to do whatever fills your soul in the best way. For today's journal prompt, write about the holidays. It could be memories that are special to you or things you miss. The emotions they bring up or the anger you feel towards this time of year. Let the writing lead you in whatever direction it takes. Thank you so much for listening, please make sure you subscribe. Share this episode with anyone who could benefit from it and as always visit remember grams. Anytime you need to send a little love to someone who is grieving. Thank you and have a wonderful day.