The Grief Of Leaving with Brooke Kekos

Brooke Kekos joins us to discuss leaving a rigid community she was raised in, and the grief of losing her family, friends, and all she had known as a result. In the same time frame, she also went through a divorce, and several years later grieved the complicated feelings that came with the death of her ex-husband, the father of her children.

Brooke has gone on to write a children's book- Grief Monster, and is in the process of writing a memoir. She is host of the podcast Goddess Rising, and is a coach working with women through their healing journeys using a combination approach of trauma informed recovery coaching and rapid transformational therapy.

To find her children's book Grief Monster, follow the link here. 

To connect with her for coaching or on social media, find her here:

https://www.lifecoachinggoddess.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brooke-kekos-253905231

https://www.instagram.com/lifecoachinggoddess

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100075036248909

https://www.facebook.com/brooke.kekos/

Transcript

Mandy: 0:00

Hello, and welcome back to the Grief Trails podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Kernaghan from Remembergrams, a small business dedicated to helping you support those in your life experiencing grief. I hope you'll consider sending someone a personalized card or grief support box. Shipping within the U. S. is always free, and we treat each order with special care, paying attention to every detail. One thing that everyone needs in life is a sense of belonging, of community. But what happens if you're raised in a community where your belonging hinges on your acceptance and participation of a set of mores and beliefs that no longer ring true for you? Leaving a community such as this can mean leaving your entire upbringing, your family, and your friends. Leaving something no longer right for you can be filled with an immense amount of grief, be that a community, a family, or a partner. Today's guest has been through this experience and more. I'm thrilled to have Brooke Kikos on the show today, author of the beautiful children's book, Grief Monster, host of the podcast, Goddess Rising. She uses a combination of trauma informed recovery coaching and rapid transformational therapy to work with clients on their own healing journeys. She's here today to share her own story.

Brooke: 1:20

So, I would say that grief came into my existence because I had to grieve the loss of losing my community and I was raised in a very dogmatic religion. So it was, you know, very love with conditional and if you left that community or that society. It meant that you no longer belonged at all, and so friendships were lost, family was lost that was in this society which was really, for a better word, is probably more cult like because once you leave, you're an outcast, and now you don't really, you don't fit in anymore. And so that was really my first experience with grief, and I didn't really realize that that was what was going to happen, even though I knew leaving this space meant that was going to happen, but I had no idea that the people that I really loved, that I thought that loved me, would actually abandon me. And so that abandonment was when really my first experience with grief happened, and the grief, I just didn't even know how to process that. It was a lot of shock.

Mandy: 2:29

Yeah, you're saying, community and family, does that include family as close as your parents and siblings

Brooke: 2:36

yeah, yeah, so my parents are still to this day actually a part of that organization. And when I left, my parents were angry, which is normal. You're trained to be angry. You're trained to treat your children that way. Because if they leave, then you're supposed to, to abandon them because they are no longer of God or they're evil. And so that's just how we're looked at. And so I did lose my parents. And to this day, I mean, I haven't spoken to my parents in almost two years. I did leave that society in 2017, and that was kind of a process of of realizing that I had to kind of cut ties with them because it was emotionally not healthy for me at the same time. They were going to abandon me either way. If I spoke my truth, or if I went outside of what they believed, it didn't matter. They were going to abandon me anyway. So, yeah, I lost all of that. Anyone that I knew that was in that religion, so really my support system.

Mandy: 3:32

Did you know anybody who had previously left and were you able to connect with people, for lack of a better term, on the outside and try to start to grow your new community?

Brooke: 3:44

Yeah, actually I did know people that had left. I had a really great friends that had left the religion along before I did that had kind of guess for better word is like they saw the light. They, they saw that what they were existing in wasn't normal. And they began to look outside the box. But we're really told that we can only read that literature that the, that the organization puts out. We're told that we can only. believe what they say. So we're not, we're very like, we're put in a box. You're not supposed to look outside of that box. And if you do, there's a lot of fear. So they left and I saw them leave. And I actually, I judged them at first, right? I think because I was taught to do that. And then seeing that they had made it out, I reconnected with them after leaving. And it was like, we were finally able to kind of understand our experience and understand what we had been through. Because they had their own grieving process to go through, but it was, it was a lot of growth, and I think that's what grief really is. Grief brings growth.

Mandy: 4:45

Right, it has both sides of the coin, right? It has like the deep pain, but it also comes with some positive results that you don't anticipate. Yes, exactly. Yeah, so obviously you knew that making this decision in your life was going to be a huge changing point, and that it could result in you losing these other people. All of these relationships in your life. But obviously the reality of feeling that is different than imagining what it might be like. What was the hardest part for you in that transition period? I felt lost.

Brooke: 5:19

I really felt lost because it was, you know, I, not only did I lose the support system, but I also lost a whole entire belief system that I felt like my whole life had existed on. So I was like, well, if I don't have this, I Then what am I supposed to have like I don't understand anything and I remember coming out of that really being angry with God being angry with what was and I'm like, Okay, well, if I was lied to my whole entire life, and that God supposedly was supposed to be taking care of me and loving me. Then why did this happen? And so I really kind of went to the, I shut things off. I shut that part of me off. I shut that connection off. I shut off any belief that there even was a creator and that even existed. Because it just was too, too painful, too confusing, and I didn't know what to think of it. So. I started to just kind of exist, if you will. And really try to just kind of numb my. Existence a little bit and, and really none the grief, right? Cause I still was so confused. It was like, I can't be this person, but I also don't know who I am.

Mandy: 6:28

What helped you move through that and make your life what it is now?

Brooke: 6:34

I really believe that it began with digging deeper into myself. What had happened in childhood. You know, I was raised by a father that had some very toxic patterns, was abusive, kind of was the, the patriarchy in the family that really created that existence which was very similar to what was the religion, right? Women are inferior, you do as you're told, you have to be the good girl, and if you're not, then I'm going to withdraw my love from you. My love is conditional. And so. I really had to look at all of that and, and my relationship with my own father and how that also was similar to the relationship that I had with this God that I had been taught about had a lot of fear. Had a lot of, if I don't do anything right, God's not going to love me. I'm going to be destroyed. And I had to start to heal those things within me. And that all began with deep reflection and, and having someone kind of guide me through the process of therapy and other healing modalities to kind of find. And navigate that really, really dark darkness that I felt.

Mandy: 7:39

Yeah. So I know that you're also here to talk about a different experience that you had with grief that came later, which was having to do with your ex husband. So help me with the timeline. Were you married? Was your husband part of this religion? Or was that after?

Brooke: 7:55

Yes, he was part of the religion. So there's a lot, this is a really big story. There's a lot of, there's a lot of depth to this, but I will keep the shorter version of this for sake of time. But yeah, he was in the religion as well. And in 2017, he's actually the one that found out that the religion was all a sham. He started to dig deeper and, and reflect and, and see that, there was more than meets the eye. And when he came to me, I didn't believe him. I had like very much the cognitive dissonance because I was, I was like, no, this is our beliefs and this is what we're supposed to do. And if you do anything else, you're going to be in trouble. And I couldn't believe him at first, but then I started to listen to him, but either way, our, our relationship was not meant to be, our relationship was a lesson for me, it was a teacher. And we ended up divorcing at that time. And in that moment, that's when I kind of started to do my own a process and, and leave everything behind. And he went his way, he went on his path. So we were not together actually at the time of his death. He died three years later after our divorce in 2020. And we have two boys together. So. That was very difficult, and that was a whole new type of grief. I had spent almost 17 years of my life with him. I had known him since I was 15 years old. And regardless of the relationship that we had and the way that it turned out, I spent a majority of my life with him, learning and growing and existing. So it was painful.

Mandy: 9:27

Yeah, that's an example of, disenfranchised grief when you are grieving a relationship that maybe society doesn't understand why you're grieving so much, right? When it comes to exes, I think people look at it and think, well, you know, you guys aren't together anymore and, and you didn't want to be together anymore. And so it almost takes away the validity of your grief. Did you feel isolated because of that? Or like. Did you ever feel a little bit of shame for how much you were grieving the loss of him? Or were you able to just accept that he was a huge part of your life?

Brooke: 10:03

Amanda, you've got to get out of my head. You're spot on with that. You're spot on with that. Yeah, I did feel deep shame about it. I felt embarrassed. Almost, I felt like well, I shouldn't be grieving this man. He also hurt me. But at the same time, there was this, this humanness in me. Greater picture of the way that I felt it was almost like a deeper connection beyond here in the physical that I couldn't quite explain yet. And I remember the point where it really made me feel the deepest shame is when my parents at that time were still a part of my life because when he died, it was obviously very tragic. And they were trying to be a part of it. My father more so because he wanted to kind of control things. But I went out to reach to get a hug from my father and he shoved me away in disgust. And. He said, how dare you grieve this man? Like, why would you even grieve him? He hurt you and you know, all of these things. And I just saw this hate and lack of love and his whole entire being in the way that he looked at me and just him pushing me away, made me recognize that this man is not love. That was really the turning point for me to say, I don't want anything to do with my father. I cannot have anything to do with my father. And that made me walk away from that relationship. And I think that also made me go into the shame of like, why am I grieving this man? But I also honored my grief. Did I feel at all at that time? No. I think grieving is such a process. It's, it's really interesting that we're on this day having this podcast episode. This is actually marks the three year anniversary of my ex husband's death today. And so I feel like everything happens for a reason. There's, there's no coincidence.

Mandy: 11:52

Yeah.

Brooke: 11:52

I agree.

Mandy: 11:54

Wow. And just to point out the fact that you were dealing with the death of someone who had been a part of your life for so long, as complicated as that relationship was, as wrong for you as it was, it's still, you know, you have every right to grieve for that person and the fact that they're no longer here. But then to add into that, you're also grieving The loss of your relationship with your dad at the same time, like having that final realization that this is not healthy for me and he is not what I need him to be for me. So it's almost like you were dealing with both losses at the same time. So I'm not surprised that it, you know, it takes a long time. I think it grief, like you said, as a process for everyone. And, you know, It's it's ongoing forever. I don't think we ever completely stopped grieving. It just changes and changes in depth and frequency and how it shows up in our lives, but.

Brooke: 12:45

Yeah, I agree completely. You know, even on this day, I still had to honor my grief. I still had to kind of just sit with it. I think I'm more in tune now with my emotional intelligence than I ever have been. Because before it was like when the grief happened. I really tried to distract myself. I tried to numb myself. I tried to run from it because it was so overwhelming in it. And granted, my, my brain is meant to do that, right? It's meant to keep us safe. It's meant to, like, not let us have to process too much at one time. So, while it served me well, I also didn't allow for myself to just kind of sit in with it. And that was, I think, how I was like, okay, I need to now honor these emotions that come through and honor, like, you know, Hey, if it's one day where I just got to sit in this grief and be sad about the loss of my father or my community, or this ex husband, because now the father of my children, they don't have a father. Right. And looking at them and seeing that.

Mandy: 13:45

How old were your children when he died?

Brooke: 13:48

My youngest was seven, and my oldest was twelve.

Mandy: 13:54

That's a whole part of grief I don't think we often explore, is it's very different for kids, and especially kids who lose a parent. I know that it's something that will stay with them for the rest of their lives, and how you parent children going through grief is really important. Difficult, and there's no guidebook for it. How was that experience for you? Is there anything that you found helpful? I, it sounds like you're at least a good role model for them, and now, like, honoring your own emotions when it comes to grief, and days like today, recognizing that it's, it's okay to feel however you're feeling, but what else would you want to share about the experience with your own kids?

Brooke: 14:34

Yeah, I mean, I definitely sitting in their grief was probably the hardest thing because as mama bear, right? We want to protect our children from from the sadness. We want to be like, we want to take away their pain. I'm like, please, please take this grief from them and give it to me. But it was the same time I also had to sit there and honor the fact that they needed to go through their own process as well. And they're still continuing to go through their own process. With that. And even on this day, you know, I think that they have to just recognize, okay, let's, let's celebrate, you know, your dad and the time that you did have with him. And while we miss him, it's okay to just honor like that sadness that we feel from that, that loss. And, you know, I would make sure that they got the therapy they needed. I made sure that they got the support they needed. I think that was the biggest piece is sometimes we like, want to just isolate ourselves. And I saw my oldest doing that, isolating himself a lot and really sitting in the depression where it's almost like, you know, he, he decided that he felt like he didn't want to live anymore. You know, the pain really, really was too much at one point. And having to sit with that and help him process that and get through that that pain.

Mandy: 15:45

Do you have advice? I'm just thinking if there are other parents who are trying to parent children through this experience, what advice would you give them to help their kids you know, get through it as best they can because it is so individual. And, you know, you can't speak for everyone, but have there been any strategies? I know you mentioned therapy, anything else that was helpful?

Brooke: 16:05

No. I think really helping them connect with a belief that it's going to help them comfort themselves. Right so, for my children in particular. You know, we had, they had been raised also within the organization that we had been in. So they also had this belief that. They didn't know what to believe now, because we had left. That organization. So it was being able to connect with. Okay. Well, how can you see what death is and what death means and helping them to see? Okay, what felt good to them? Right? And for for my oldest. He didn't know what to necessarily believe. At first, he was very confused because he had a different experience than my younger child. And so he was trying to find the answers of, okay, well, is my dad in heaven or is my dad gone or is, will I ever see my dad again? And I think he's still, he's finally finding some peace with that. And just having like, okay, what does feel good to you to help lead them there, right? And help them make the decision for themselves. I really felt like that was what it needed to happen. I believe that our loved ones are still here with us. It's just in spirit, it's, it's just different. It's like, we still will reconnect. I think we're all connected. And so my belief system didn't have to necessarily be theirs. It was what resonated with them.

Mandy: 17:34

Have you been able to do, have, or have they been able to do anything special to like, keep his memory with them on days like today when it's, you know, going to be a little bit more of a difficult day?

Brooke: 17:47

Yeah, I think that we always do kind of a ritual where we'll, we'll have a nice dinner. We'll share an Italian dinner. Their dad was Italian. So we'll do something like we'll do something together and we'll share good memories and really celebrate life. That's kind of what I gain from this. It's more of like, okay, well, there is the grief and the sadness while we have to sit with it. It's also being able to say today is a great day to be alive. how are we celebrating this moment and honoring those that we have lost? By living fully in this moment, and I think that's really how we honor the people that we love that we've lost is just living more fully in our own expression right now. And so we always make sure that we celebrate. Oh, what are we going to celebrate today. Right. What is the greatest and what's the best story about your dad that you want to share today or something fun or something amazing that you remember. Thank you.

Mandy: 18:43

I love that you're being so open with them to let them talk about him, because in this dynamic where the two of you were divorced, that in other families it might feel like they, that children might feel like they can't talk about that parent who's gone because they know that there was some kind of strain in the relationship, but it sounds like you're creating a really safe space for them to feel like they can still talk about their dad and remember him in the ways that they need to, and I just, I love that. Honor you for that because that's a tough job for you to do. I'm sure to sometimes push aside whatever history you have and create that environment for them, but so helpful to get them through it.

Brooke: 19:22

Thank you. I appreciate that. I think the most important part is helping. I mean, because I know for my youngest, especially, I mean, he had no idea where death was when it happened. I mean, he was six, almost seven. And so I'm like, he had no concept of death. It hadn't been experienced that someone so close to him dying before. And he really was so confused about what death is. And then it became a fear, right? Oh, my gosh, mom, don't leave. Cause he was afraid I was going to die, right? Like it was like the fear that just consumed him. It was very, very deeply traumatizing. So it's really important that we help these children navigate through their emotions to also, you know, not get so stuck in the fear of, Oh my God, that I lost this person. That means I'm going to lose the next person and the next person. And. Because you can really be get trapped there.

Mandy: 20:15

It sounds like to me in the last six years, you've, you've had a lot of loss, you, you lost your community, you went through a divorce, and then your children's father passed away. And that's all in a pretty recent time span. How have you, how has this changed your life? How has it impacted who you are? What are you doing now? And, and what has helped you get there?

Brooke: 20:38

It completely changed my life. It was like, I was on one path and then it was like, I got swept to the quickly to the next path. And that path was really to help me heal more deeply so that I could use my experience and what I had survived to help others. And so I was actually in the beauty industry. While this happened, that's what I was doing. As I left this community, as I got divorced, I went back and to do this, because this is all I had known. And And this, when his death happened and this grief happened, it was really what ignited my own spiritual awakening and showed me that I needed to use everything that I had experienced to not only heal myself, but to help others transform their lives. And so I went back to school. I went back to school and became an RTT therapist and a trauma healing coach. And now I lead. Women that have this grief that has had these experiences and have gone through divorce, have lost community, have felt lost and alone to transform their lives to basically rewrite their lives. Because that's what I had to do. I had to start from the beginning and begin again. So that's how it changed my life. I was able to take this really deep pain and put it into purpose and start to navigate life in a completely different way, a more purposeful way.

Mandy: 22:05

Yeah, that's incredible. So you're coaching women. And then I know that you also wrote a book. Is that right?

Brooke: 22:14

Yeah. I am. Yeah. So I've actually, I'm in the process of writing two different books. The one book is my memoir, which will come out probably in 2024. But my, my latest little creation is I've written a series of children's book on emotional intelligence. And one in particular is. On grief, and it's called the grief monster. It is really to help children that have lost a parent to be able to navigate this very deep emotion that is painful. It's probably the most pain that we will feel in our aliveness and helping these children just to understand it. Because when my son was my youngest I was looking for a book to kind of help him. It was easier for my older child. But for him, it was just, there was such a limited amount of books for, for children on this subject, which of course, who wants to talk about this? Nobody wants to talk about this, right? We want, we want to avoid it at all costs. And so I just sat down one day and I said, I'm going to write this. This is what this is going to be about. And so it's going to be a series of books and it's going to be all about their emotional intelligence and helping kids navigate. The harder emotions, I

Mandy: 23:23

think that's incredibly important because like you said, the resources are scarce and books are, you know, finding a book that resonates with you and your grief, even as an adult can be difficult. Trying to find the right one that really connects with what you're feeling and makes you feel like, oh, it's not just me and it makes you see it in a different way. Is difficult for adults and then if you look at children and there's so much less to choose from I think having more out there in the world to normalize this for kids Not that it's a normal experience to go through in childhood But it can definitely happen and it does happen to a lot of children And yeah that book I think sounds like the world needs it and i'm glad that you're putting it out there

Brooke: 24:07

Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, i'm very excited about it. And honestly, it's funny I've had people reach out to me and let me know they're like Well, this is not just for the little children, this is like for the inner child and all of us, because we've all experienced a deep loss, right, in one way or another. And it's just like, oh, okay, how do I connect to this, this grief and how do I let my body and my mind just fully express it and feel it?

Mandy: 24:33

Yeah, and sometimes reading access is a different part of us that talking, you know, especially with kids, sometimes you're not ready to talk about the deep stuff yet, or you're not even able to put words to how you're feeling yet. And so to have a book that they can relate to and just think about before they're ready to bring it into, into talking to somebody, I think that's a great first step.

Brooke: 24:59

Yes, completely. Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate you letting me share that because it is such a, it was such a passion project for me and being able to share that with the world I, I find is just lights me up.

Mandy: 25:12

yeah, I'm excited to see what you're going to do. And what about your memoir? What is that about?

Brooke: 25:17

Yeah, it's my experience of really my life. It's my experience with living within the society that I lived in. And how that was to leave it and all those experiences that were intertwined within it and how it not only molded and shaped me, but then the on doing that I had to do with all of the conditioning and the programming that had happened within that existence.

Mandy: 25:42

Is there anything you would want to leave? Listeners with that, maybe you share with your coaching clients or people who are just beginning this process of divorce or really overhauling their life. You know, where can they start? What should they think about?

Brooke: 25:59

So the first thing I would say is you're never alone. I think sometimes when we're in grief or when we're going through these really huge life changes. Our, our normal and our human instinct is to cocoon, Oh my gosh, isolate myself, protect myself, save myself, right? Try to break out of that cocoon and go and get yourself some support, get fine community, find support. And if you're grieving, if you're going through divorce, if you've lost a husband, a wife, you know, somebody that you love. There's grief communities, there's grief support systems on there that are free that you can connect with people and you can, it'll help you heal within that community because you're going to be seen and heard and people are going to go through the exact same things that you're going through. And what this does is it allows you not to isolate to feel alone. But rather to be able to connect and then feel your grief, like actually be able to feel it instead of being survival mode, right? Trying to protect yourself and feeling all alone, because that's when we get more depressed.

Mandy: 27:11

Unfortunately, you kind of have to feel it and go through it in order to get to the space where you feel like you're going to grow from it. Because if we avoid it and ignore it and distract ourselves to the maximum, unfortunately the grief just stays there and waits for you until you're ready to sit down and go through it.

Brooke: 27:31

Yeah. And take it from me that I did that. I did all of that and it was not good. It wasn't fun to do at the end process. You know, I thought, I remember just looking back on my journey is. I, what I, how I used my distraction was let me clean, organize, let me frantically run about, let me, you know, do whatever I can to like not sit still. Because I knew if I sat still, I was going to have to feel something and I didn't want to feel anything. So it was trying to find anything I could to numb it, but it was there waiting for me.

Mandy: 28:03

That's great advice for a first step for people because feeling like you're alone in this is very common, even though it's It's a universal experience that everyone's going to go through in some way or another, some form or another. Just like you had this experience of grief, leaving a community and getting a divorce. And, you know, it also comes, everyone always thinks about grief when it comes to losing a loved one, but it just comes in so many different forms and something that we're all going to go through. So, reminding people that. there are people out there who have been through something similar and being able to find those communities,

Brooke: 28:38

Where

Mandy: 28:39

could people find you if they're interested in connecting more with you?

Brooke: 28:43

Yeah. So I would love to connect with anybody on all the socials Tik TOK, Instagram, Facebook is Brooke Kikos or Life Coaching Goddess. That's my brand. That's my name, Life Coaching Goddess. So that's where you can find me. Like connect. I can do it. No, we can chat if you're just leaving honestly, if you anything that I said resonated for you or anything that. Your experience right now or have experience and you want to just chat about I am open to something like that as well. Because I really do believe in sisterhood and community and being able to sit with people that really need just sometimes a hand to hold through the process.

Mandy: 29:18

Brooke is the kind of person who radiates a light when you talk to her, and it can be surprising to hear all of the pain that she's walked through to get where she is today. To learn more about how she's helping others through their own recovery, check out her website lifecoachinggoddess. com. It is linked in the show notes along with her children's book Grief Monster, a story that is such a needed resource in our community, and the accompanying illustrations are just incredible. I think you're gonna love it. Thank you so much for listening. Please make sure you subscribe, share this episode with anyone who could benefit from it, and as always visit Remembergrams anytime you need to send a little love to someone who is grieving. Thank you and have a wonderful day.